What if... no transformations (Roster)

#1COlimar788Posted 3/11/2013 3:43:22 PM
Some of you may have seen a topic by me a while ago where I noted that having a character roster without transformations would make sense from a marketing standpoint. Transformations of characters take up just as many resources as new characters entirely, but much of the Smash Bros. fanbase, and casual players especially, don't see transformations in this way, instead seeing characters like Pokemon Trainer as just one. So why not trim out all transformations? It'd be an easy way to get around the supposed fact that the roster is hitting its limit, size-wise, and would allow for a larger roster in visibility if not in gameplay.

Thus, I made a roster that could reflect what a game without transformations might look like. It has 50 characters, a number that should be easily reachable, especially without having to worry about the "real" number being somewhere around 54 due to hypothetical transformations

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v135/C.Olimar788/Roosters/NoTransformsRooster_zpsf906f812.png

Mario Bros.
Mario
Peach
Bowser
Luigi
Bowser Jr. - I see him as the most likely Mario newcomer, but the competition between him, Toad, and Waluigi is quite close. He could easily be replaced one of those other options.

Donkey Kong
Donkey Kong
Diddy Kong

Yoshi's Island
Yoshi

Legend of Zelda
Link (Skyward Sword)
Zelda (Skyward Sword) - No Sheik, but her moveset stays roughly the same but with a new down special.
Ganondorf (Wind Waker) - Completely new moveset, and his design could be primarily based on Wind Waker with some design cues taken from Demise in Skyward Sword.
Young Link (Wind Waker) - Completely new moveset based on the "Toon" games. No longer called Toon Link because, well, SS Link is also "toon"-y.
Impa (Skyward Sword) - Takes most of Sheik's moveset, with a new down special and Final Smash.

Pokemon - With the removal of Pokemon Trainer, each Pokemon gets their own Trainer that will automatically be in the backgrounds (but completely silent) when they're fighting.
Pikachu (Red)
Jigglypuff (Leaf)
Mewtwo (Gold/Ethan)
Lucario (Dawn)
Gen VI Pokemon (Gen VI Male Trainer)

Kirby
Kirby
Meta Knight
King Dedede

Metroid
Samus
ZSS - No longer a transformation of Samus in any way, and gets a new Final Smash as a result.
Ridley

Star Fox
Fox
Falco
Wolf

Fire Emblem
Marth
Ike
Chrom - Has a "helper" system in the form of Robin helping with certain attacks, but they cannot switch places on the battlefield or anything like that.

Earthbound/Mother
Ness
Lucas

Kid Icarus
Pit
Palutena

Other Modern
Captain Falcon
Olimar
Little Mac
Shulk
Isaac
Mii - Possibly with a customizable moveset that can be imported from the 3DS version.

Retro
Ice Climbers
Mr. Game & Watch
R.O.B.
Takamaru

3rd Party
Sonic
Snake
Pac-Man
Mega Man
Professor Layton

What do you think? Any egregious inclusions or exclusions? Do you think there's no chance of transformations being taken out?
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There will never be a game as horribly disappointing as Other M
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#2NskiPosted 3/11/2013 4:22:08 PM
It's pretty interesting. Was the no transformations just an exercise in options or do you legitimately see a reason for this happening, because honestly that'd be a pretty big stretch.
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All generalizations are false, including this one.
#3Nicholas2222Posted 3/11/2013 4:41:39 PM
Hmmm, sorry, not feeling this.
Something about it seems a bit lacklustre, like there's nothing that really makes it "Stand out"

No Transformations is a nice idea to try and adapt, but removing the PKMN Trainers Pokemon entirely kinda puts a bad taste in my mouth, that and the choice for newcomers is a bit bland, albeit very popular choices, but still bland.

One last thing I'll note is I think a cap. of 4 Third Parties should be the maximum for any potential roster.

Overall, I'll give it a 6 out of 10, for a nice idea, and a decent selection of relativly popular and plausible newcomers (minus Layton, personally) and for doing said idea ... alright, I'd say, just not great.

... alright, 7 out of 10 just because Wind Waker Ganondorf :V
#4DoubtedPlatypusPosted 3/11/2013 4:45:01 PM
Phoenix Wright. He's mega popular and is on Nintendo consoles primarily (Aside from UMvC3 he's not on any Sony or Xbox consoles) plus he's in 2 other crossovers already that I know of. He's also very relevant with Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney and Ace Attorney 5 coming out for 3ds.
#5xgiraffes13xPosted 3/11/2013 4:56:03 PM
9.5/10. Really good roster honestly. .-5 for Professor Layton. If we DO get another 3rd party I'm hoping It's Bayonetta in all honesty...I mean what other iconic video game characters are there to add? None.
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#6NskiPosted 3/11/2013 5:46:04 PM
xgiraffes13x posted...
9.5/10. Really good roster honestly. .-5 for Professor Layton. If we DO get another 3rd party I'm hoping It's Bayonetta in all honesty...I mean what other iconic video game characters are there to add? None.


Ugh total opposite to you. Layton over Bayonetta any day. Her series should have died and been forgotten. Now just because Ninty resurrected it she's considered viable. Granted I'd probably grow to accept her in a roster but starting off? No way.
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All generalizations are false, including this one.
#7mariofan42Posted 3/11/2013 7:06:59 PM
For some strange reason there's no King K Rool or Krystal
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#8COlimar788(Topic Creator)Posted 3/11/2013 9:09:09 PM
Nski posted...
It's pretty interesting. Was the no transformations just an exercise in options or do you legitimately see a reason for this happening, because honestly that'd be a pretty big stretch.

Primarily an exercise in a hypothetical, but I can see it as a possibility. As I noted, it would make a lot of sense from a marketing standpoint, as it would allow them to advertise more newcomers and none of the current transforming characters really have their transformation as a selling point. The closest to really have a transformation as integral to the character is PT, and I think there are other ways to rep the Trainer.

Nicholas2222 posted...
No Transformations is a nice idea to try and adapt, but removing the PKMN Trainers Pokemon entirely kinda puts a bad taste in my mouth, that and the choice for newcomers is a bit bland, albeit very popular choices, but still bland.

I can see that. I was tossing around ideas for other, less "obvious" newcomers, like Muddy Mole, but I just wasn't sure. It's hard to predict what sorts of things Sakurai will pull, haha.

On PT, the thing is that his Pokemon don't stand alone. At all. None of them are even close to being important enough to be their own characters, and so if transformations are out the Pokemon almost definitely have to be cut, too. If my roster was the case, I would hope they could at least show up as DLC later, though!

DoubtedPlatypus posted...
Phoenix Wright. He's mega popular and is on Nintendo consoles primarily (Aside from UMvC3 he's not on any Sony or Xbox consoles) plus he's in 2 other crossovers already that I know of. He's also very relevant with Professor Layton vs Ace Attorney and Ace Attorney 5 coming out for 3ds.

Believe you me, I love me some Phoenix, but I can't see Capcom getting more than one rep and Mega Man is the obvious choice. One could argue Capcom's... lack of interest in him lately, but I think that makes his inclusion all the more likely: it's free advertising and would easily gauge the audience for Mega Man without Capcom having to do much.

mariofan42 posted...
For some strange reason there's no King K Rool or Krystal

K. Rool I knew I'd get some flack for, but I just don't think he's as likely as this board seems to think. He's definitely next in line for a DK character, but the DK series is, at its core, still a spin off of Mario and was only recently revived. And that revival, while putting a distinct focus on DK and Diddy, completely lacked K. Rool. There could even be some legal troubles with the character, as the DKC games were recently pulled from the Virtual Console. Long story short, I doubt K. Rool will get in until DKCR2 shows up and he is the villain again.

Krystal... well, Star Fox getting three reps was practically miraculous, and there's no way it'll get a forth any time soon. And Krystal is neither as iconic nor as popular as Falco or Wolf. I'd personally like to see her with some cool staff moves, but I think she'll have to wait until a hypothetical future where Star Fox is revived and she's in the revival.

xgiraffes13x posted...
9.5/10. Really good roster honestly. .-5 for Professor Layton. If we DO get another 3rd party I'm hoping It's Bayonetta in all honesty...I mean what other iconic video game characters are there to add? None.

I see Layton as fairly likely because of the close relationship between Nintendo and Level-5 as well as his possibility to pull in new sales for Smash (and vice-versa). Bayonetta has a good chance, but that would require Sega getting a second rep, which I'd personally avoid.
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There will never be a game as horribly disappointing as Other M
3DS Friend Code: 2234-7169-9510
#9Doug314Posted 3/11/2013 9:27:58 PM
5 3rd parties is too many IMO, and I really don't like the idea of no transformations. It takes away a good bit of what makes some characters unique. ZSS being a character on her own doesn't seem like it has many advantages over the transformation of Samus version, and then it just seems demoted to being another one of the things like Link and Toon Link where 2 versions of the same character is just a bad use of space. Samus/ZSS together no one minded since they were very unique and a transformation of each other.
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