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SSB4 Roster Prediction... Sorta... Thing.

#1sterlingtygerPosted 4/6/2013 4:02:00 PM
Not quite a prediction because I don't think it's what's /likely/. But it's my, roster, I suppose. The characters are decided by relevant factors such as importance to Nintendo, importance to the series, and I think I'm looking at the same character ballpark Sakurai is.

http://i.imgur.com/I6PRMtW.png

That's the image, but some things to note:
Mewtwo would appear in his new form that was like just confirmed(sigh oh well i guess i am a big dummy) and replace Lucario. Pikachu and Pokemon Trainer ain't going anywhere, but honestly, I wouldn't be TOO surprised to see Jigglypuff go somewhere in favor of some new variety over in Pokemon. (fingers crossed for Meowth or Deoxys)

Ganondorf is decloned, Wolf has his B moves made more differenter, and everyone has a unique Final Smash. However, Toon Link, Falco, and Lucas are still pretty much clones, and Lucina is a clone of Marth.

Simply because I have Pac-Man on here does not mean I think he is the most likely Namco rep, necessarily. I think Lloyd has a chance, I think a few others have a chance, I think it's even possible that Namco won't even get a rep, since Namco's come out saying they would not add or push for a character unless Sakurai asked them. But I think it's likely that there will be one, and Pac-Man has the most importance to gaming history. Considering games like Miyamoto-developed Pac-Man Vs. on the Gamecube, or the Arcade Mario Karts that have Pac-Man, Ms. Pac-Man and Blinky, I'd say Pac-Man himself is close enough to Nintendo. So he's on here, but if you want to mentally fill him in with Lloyd, or Agumon, or Klonoa, that's fine.

Yes, Lucina's in rather than Chrom, and yes, she's a clone of Marth.

So, what are your thoughts? Are you satisfied with this? Anyone missing you're dying to see? Anyone here you'd rather see go?
#2UberPyro64Posted 4/6/2013 4:06:55 PM
Yes, Lucina's in rather than Chrom, and yes, she's a clone of Marth.


Yuck. Chrom could be unique at least. I would prefer him and being the main character, he pretty much is likelier.

Also take out the Villager. We aren't getting an AC character guys. Sakurai said it himself though more along the lines of the series not being suitable for a fighter.

Other then that, it's good.
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My SSB4 Roster: http://img849.imageshack.us/img849/7451/april2013roster.png
#3RanzEDGEPosted 4/6/2013 4:13:03 PM
Lucina marth clone yuck but seriously why do people think lucarios is gonna get cut so easily i mean come on hes a freaking mascot!
other than those two problems i like i like the megaman inclusion too.
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VV-Double team is OP-VV
http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc87/lugiaXDTrainer/Lucario/lucariosig.gif
#4_Super_Shadow_Posted 4/6/2013 4:39:17 PM
YAYYYY FOR LUCINA
Ill be happy even if she gets in as a clone of marth,
but she really doesnt need to be,
honestly. she took the IMAGE of marth, not the fighting style, it is said on many occasions that she was trained by chrom, and even tiki and marth in the DLC comment how they look alike but are not the same.

but I am very very unimpressed with you cutting Lucario and Keeping Pokemon Trainer or Jigglypuff.
Lucario will stay, He is STILL the biggest Mascot next to pikachu in japan, If anyone watched pokemon smash today, they would have realized that with the hundred adverts he was featured in. we need newer pokemon to be represented as well. Jigglypuff does nothing for the series anymore that isnt already fulfilled by other characters in a greater fashion. This is a prediction list, so this may not be what you want, but I think you should really re-evaluate Lucario's chances. He plays incredibly different, and if it werent for the same standard charge up "B" move, I feel fans would look at him differently. Mewtwo was cut due to time constraints, Look at pokemon trainer for that problem, not lucario.
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Ridley, Tom Nook, Lucina, Bowser Jr, Palutena, Megaman, Lloyd Irving, and Agumon for Smash
#5sterlingtyger(Topic Creator)Posted 4/6/2013 7:08:31 PM
_Super_Shadow_ posted...
YAYYYY FOR LUCINA
Ill be happy even if she gets in as a clone of marth,
but she really doesnt need to be,
honestly. she took the IMAGE of marth, not the fighting style, it is said on many occasions that she was trained by chrom, and even tiki and marth in the DLC comment how they look alike but are not the same..


Any character could have a unique moveset, sure. But Lucina masquerades as Marth and pretends to /be/ him. And while I do think she would have differences, as any clone does, she would be deemed both important enough to the newest game and similar enough to Marth to warrant cloning.
Which would be easier. And honestly, the only way I see 3 FE reps happening is if one is a clone. And I definitely don't see there not being a main character from Awakening, considering its newness and how much of a HIT it is.
So it's either Marth, Ike, and a clone from Awakening; Marth, Chrom and a clone from any game(probably Roy); or Marth and Chrom. That's really the only options I can see, and honestly this one looks best to me? It might not be what happens, but it doesn't involve the axing of Ike and his unique moveset that lots of people like, and it introduces a new female character(which Sakurai is bound to want to add at least some of considering the deficiency in past games), and, well. Personally, I'm a fan of clones. I'd rather have Marth, Ike and a quicker/more elegant "clone" of Marth than Marth and Chrom. I'd rather have Fox, Wolf, and a more more technical, faster "clone" of Fox than Fox and Wolf. I'd rather have Link, Zelda, Sheik, Ganondorf and a quicker, lighter "clone" of Link than Link, Zelda, Sheik and Ganondorf.
Clones are interesting to me, if only because they're A: additional characters and B: despite having similar moves, necessitate an entirely new fighting style. Mario and Dr. Mario were incredibly similar, but they were still different in just enough subtle ways that it took an entirely different person to be good with Doc than to be good with Mario.
Pichu and Pikachu both had their faults and benefits(although Pichu's faults were pretty superficial >_>), Roy and Marth took ENTIRELY different playstyles, Link and Toon/Young Link are hardly anything alike! Even the WORST pair of clones, Captain Falcon and Ganondorf, are drastically different enough to warrant a separate character(even though it doesn't fit Ganondorf at all and is dumb and stupid and stupid and dumb.)
#6sterlingtyger(Topic Creator)Posted 4/6/2013 7:25:18 PM
_Super_Shadow_ posted...
but I am very very unimpressed with you cutting Lucario and Keeping Pokemon Trainer or Jigglypuff.
Lucario will stay, He is STILL the biggest Mascot next to pikachu in japan, If anyone watched pokemon smash today, they would have realized that with the hundred adverts he was featured in. we need newer pokemon to be represented as well. Jigglypuff does nothing for the series anymore that isnt already fulfilled by other characters in a greater fashion. This is a prediction list, so this may not be what you want, but I think you should really re-evaluate Lucario's chances. He plays incredibly different, and if it werent for the same standard charge up "B" move, I feel fans would look at him differently. Mewtwo was cut due to time constraints, Look at pokemon trainer for that problem, not lucario.


Aaaaand as for this...

Well, you know what, I'm knowledgeable about Pokemon and Smash, let's go into detail on it.

In Super Smash Brothers 64 there were two Pokemon reps. Pikachu, the mascot of the series, who needs no introduction. He's been the mascot since... episode 1 of the anime, really, considering the mascot was at different points supposed to be Clefairy or Poliwhirl.
He's had games all about himself, featuring Pikachu right on the cover, he appears in every episode of the hit show, and so on and so on. He's Pokemon's icon, and since Pokemon is one of the most well known, profitable, popular series of all time, that makes Pikachu one of the most recognizable CHARACTERS of all time. Maybe not as high as Pac-Man, Mario and Mickey Mouse, but DEFINITELY up there. People who've never touched a joystick or watched that show in their LIFE could identify a Pikachu. Amish people know what Pikachu is.
So of course he'd be in there, but the other one was a bit of a surprise to a few people; Jigglypuff, the pink puffball who sometimes showed up in the anime but was never all that important, who was pretty popular I guess for like a year and then became just another Pokemon, who's best known for singing a song.
What happened? I'll tell you what happened; Super Smash Bros 64 was, how you say, "a quickly and poorly made game". Did you know that all 4 of the original Secret Characters don't have their own models?
Captain Falcon was an edited Samus model, and both of them share moves, and in fact, they're BOTH based on the original models from the prototype, Dragon King: The Fighting Game.
Luigi was a direct clone of Mario, and his model was literally just green Mario! And oddly enough, Ness was also primarily modeled off of Mario, and shared moves and animations with the Mario Bros.
And Jigglypuff was based directly off of the other cute, popular, pink puffball in the game, Kirby. And shared quite a few of the same attacks!
/None of these characters would have been in the original SSB if Sakurai was not lazy and on a time limit./
Originally planned for SSB64 were Meowth(probably the second best known Pokemon, very popular, well known, still has not found his way into SSB), Pit, King Dedede, and Bowser.

As it happened, while Ness changed a fair bit, got his own model, had a lot of popularity thanks to Smash and really holds his own, and while Luigi was decloned and became steadily more important to the Mario series, and while Captain Falcon got his own model distanced from Samus's...
/Jigglypuff has not stopped being based primarily on Kirby resources/. And after all, why would they?

But what does this mean for Jigglypuff?
It means that she is not going anywhere. It means that Jigglypuff, despite lacking importance to the series and not being very popular, is NOT going to be excluded. Because it takes like a week and a half to implement her. And after all, can you blame them?

Not to say I agree with this. I like Jiggs' moveset but there's NO importance to Nintendo or Pokemon. Which I am not a fan of. But it's not changing.
#7Doug314Posted 4/6/2013 7:29:04 PM
Mostly very nice and realistic, but I think K. Rool should be on there. He's at least ahead of villager.
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Palutena, Isaac, Ridley, King K. Rool, and Anna for SSB4
"I'm willing to bet money that Waluigi, Chrom and K. Rool are in this game" -DynasticAnthony
#8sterlingtyger(Topic Creator)Posted 4/6/2013 7:46:20 PM
So what about Pokemon Trainer then? Surely this character, that takes the time of three characters to include, is expendable?

... Not... really? Pokemon Trainer is like the exact opposite of Jigglypuff, because the lone argument for one's exclusion is the lone argument for the other's inclusion, and vice versa. It just so happens that both are incredibly strong arguments for inclusion.

Pokemon Trainer, in exactly the way that Jigglypuff is not, takes a long-ass time to develop, considering it's 4 completely original models with their own unique animations and movesets for 3 of them, and they've got to make Pokemon Trainer follow his Pokemon correctly, and they've got to do sound clip work; I can only imagine that Pokemon Trainer was development hell to create.
But he was worth it! Because Pokemon Trainer is probably the BEST Pokemon rep for representing Pokemon to date. THREE major, core game concepts to the series, unrepresented in Smash thus far, are EMBODIED in Pokemon Trainer, not to mention his use of Charizard(one of the MOST POPULAR POKEMON OF ALL TIME ANYWHERE EVER, alongside the likes of Arceus and Mewtwo), Squirtle(one of the most iconic Pokemon thanks to its appearance in the anime and being a starter), and Ivysaur(who... yeah ok this one's not as important but it'll all make sense in a second).

Those game concepts are The Trainer, Evolution, and Starters.
Pokemon Trainer obviously embodies the trainer, which a lot of people underestimate. In Pokemon, you're not PLAYING as the Pokemon, you're playing as the trainer, giving orders to your lovely pets and friends.
Pokemon Trainer obviously represents the Starters, which are a CONSTANTLY recurring aspect of the Pokemon games, and one of the most important ones. One of the most famous questions of all time is "Squirtle, Bulbasaur or Charmander?", and this character using evolutions of the three represents that.
Aaaand of course this character represents evolution, possibly the most iconic game mechanic to the Pokemon franchise. Based off of the concept of metamorphosis in nature, where a creature will transform from one form to another, after reaching a certain level a Pokemon will evolve into a stronger, different looking Pokemon; like how a Caterpillar becomes a Butterfly, or how a Tadpole becomes a Frog.

Now obviously there's a better Pokemon that COULD represent evolution, that I'm sure you can all think of. But when it comes down to it, is Eevee really as important to Pokemon as Pokemon Trainer, or even Charizard is?

Pokemon Trainer is one of the most important characters in Smash because of how perfectly he represents his games. There is a 0.0% chance of this character being removed, despite how important he is.

At the end of the day, Lucario just doesn't hold up. He's not really iconic, he's not relevant anymore, he takes time to develop... I mean, sure, as DLC or something, but I don't think he's right for this installement, especially with its expected low character count.

Lucario replaced Pichu, Newtwo replaces Lucario. If any series is expected to have flavor of the month it's Pokemon... unfortunate as that may be, because god damn if it wouldn't be nice to maybe ever get to a point where we're representing like... 3 whole generations in one game.

And honestly I think if /anyone/ is biased when it comes to Lucario it's you, mister and/or missus "this character is a mascot because I like to play as them".
(And I'm not saying that because I don't like playing as Lucario, or even that I don't like Lucario in general. He's a cool Pokemon, it'd be nice to see him included, he was fun to play as, I just don't think it's gonna happen. There's too many important, cool Pokemon to just have the same 4 again, and I really can't see Pokemon Trainer, Jigglypuff or Pikachu going anywhere.)
#9sterlingtyger(Topic Creator)Posted 4/6/2013 7:47:42 PM
So what about Pokemon Trainer then? Surely this character, that takes the time of three characters to include, is expendable?

... Not... really? Pokemon Trainer is like the exact opposite of Jigglypuff, because the lone argument for one's exclusion is the lone argument for the other's inclusion, and vice versa. It just so happens that both are incredibly strong arguments for inclusion.

Pokemon Trainer, in exactly the way that Jigglypuff is not, takes a long-ass time to develop, considering it's 4 completely original models with their own unique animations and movesets for 3 of them, and they've got to make Pokemon Trainer follow his Pokemon correctly, and they've got to do sound clip work; I can only imagine that Pokemon Trainer was development hell to create.
But he was worth it! Because Pokemon Trainer is probably the BEST Pokemon rep for representing Pokemon to date. THREE major, core game concepts to the series, unrepresented in Smash thus far, are EMBODIED in Pokemon Trainer, not to mention his use of Charizard(one of the MOST POPULAR POKEMON OF ALL TIME ANYWHERE EVER, alongside the likes of Arceus and Mewtwo), Squirtle(one of the most iconic Pokemon thanks to its appearance in the anime and being a starter), and Ivysaur(who... yeah ok this one's not as important but it'll all make sense in a second).

Those game concepts are The Trainer, Evolution, and Starters.
Pokemon Trainer obviously embodies the trainer, which a lot of people underestimate. In Pokemon, you're not PLAYING as the Pokemon, you're playing as the trainer, giving orders to your lovely pets and friends.
Pokemon Trainer obviously represents the Starters, which are a CONSTANTLY recurring aspect of the Pokemon games, and one of the most important ones. One of the most famous questions of all time is "Squirtle, Bulbasaur or Charmander?", and this character using evolutions of the three represents that.
Aaaand of course this character represents evolution, possibly the most iconic game mechanic to the Pokemon franchise. Based off of the concept of metamorphosis in nature, where a creature will transform from one form to another, after reaching a certain level a Pokemon will evolve into a stronger, different looking Pokemon; like how a Caterpillar becomes a Butterfly, or how a Tadpole becomes a Frog.

Now obviously there's a better Pokemon that COULD represent evolution, that I'm sure you can all think of. But when it comes down to it, is Eevee really as important to Pokemon as Pokemon Trainer, or even Charizard is?

Pokemon Trainer is one of the most important characters in Smash because of how perfectly he represents his games. There is a 0.0% chance of this character being removed, despite how important he is.

At the end of the day, Lucario just doesn't hold up. He's not really iconic, he's not relevant anymore, he takes time to develop... I mean, sure, as DLC or something, but I don't think he's right for this installement, especially with its expected low character count.

Lucario replaced Pichu, Newtwo replaces Lucario. If any series is expected to have flavor of the month it's Pokemon... unfortunate as that may be, because god damn if it wouldn't be nice to maybe ever get to a point where we're representing like... 3 whole generations in one game.

And honestly I think if /anyone/ is biased when it comes to Lucario it's you, mister and/or missus "this character is a mascot because I like to play as them".
(And I'm not saying that because I don't like playing as Lucario, or even that I don't like Lucario in general. He's a cool Pokemon, it'd be nice to see him included, he was fun to play as, I just don't think it's gonna happen. There's too many important, cool Pokemon to just have the same 4 again, and I really can't see Pokemon Trainer, Jigglypuff or Pikachu going anywhere.)
#10sterlingtyger(Topic Creator)Posted 4/6/2013 7:58:13 PM
Aaaaugh gdi Gamefaqs. It just did a double post by insisting that it failed to post, so I hit backspace and retried and now it's there twice.

Anyway Doug... eh. I think it's possible but I think the sheepy mentality of this board has led to some overrating of chances of some characters, K. Rool in particular.
Donkey Kong is really not as important to a series as some people like to think it is, and K. Rool wouldn't really bring anything new or interesting to Smash. He's a new villain from a series that doesn't really need any new characters, and his moveset would vary from "too similar to Bowser and Wolf", to "booooooooring".

Maybe that's my "interesting moveset" bias speaking. The point remains that this Rare-created character hasn't had a major role in a game since... what, DK Jungle Climber? Which like 3 people played?

I think Dixie has a better chance, and even that is not all that high. But maybe I'm biased. I included him on most of my rosters prior to this one, simply because of the sheep mentality. But then I sat down and realized "wait... why is this character on my roster?" So I threw him out the window to be run over twelve times. By a cliff. Off a skyscraper. Into a discount... felt... surplus... store.