New Fighter Build

#1ArmoredRevengerPosted 8/10/2013 10:31:54 PM
Infernal Mode made me realize how important HP can be. I didn't realize till now that all characters have the same base HP on level ups.

I always thought that the Fighter will have more base HP than most other characters but I was wrong haha.

This is my current build. It isn't meant for tanking. It's more of a attacking build really.

Also maxed Rebuke is super powerful. The trick is to go near your target (as in right in front of it) then do Mega Smash. You're completely invincible till you smash down your weapon and the actual smashing down hits twice and is much more powerful than the resulting shockwave. I also carry a 2nd weapon to switch to so I won't have to wait for a cooldown.

I've heard some people say to leave Bash at level 1 unless your a tank and I don't understand why.

Maxed Reflex Guard makes you block roughly half of the attacks you might take while on the ground so you Bash a lot even if you didn't mean to.

At max rank Bash stuns 80% of the time. That's insane especially considering that most of my Bashes were simply done because Reflex Guard triggered. It's pretty good imo.

Anyway here is the build.

Common Skills:

Vitality Boost Lvl 8 - 17 SP
Nutritionist Lvl 1 - 1 SP
Evasion Lvl 3 - 9 SP
Deep Pockets Lvl 3 - 12 SP

Common Skills SP Total = 39 SP

Fighter Skills:

Cyclone Masher Lvl 5 - 12 SP
Judgement Lvl 7 - 17 SP
Rebuke Lvl 7 - 17 SP
Tempest Edge Lvl 10 - 29 SP
Cover Allies Lvl 3 - 6 SP
Reflex Guard Lvl 5 - 9 SP
Bash Lvl 10 - 25 SP

Fighter Skills SP Total = 116 SP

Total SP Used = 155 SP
#2redd530Posted 8/10/2013 10:46:17 PM(edited)
ArmoredRevenger posted...
I've heard some people say to leave Bash at level 1 unless your a tank and I don't understand why.

Maxed Reflex Guard makes you block roughly half of the attacks you might take while on the ground so you Bash a lot even if you didn't mean to.

At max rank Bash stuns 80% of the time. That's insane especially considering that most of my Bashes were simply done because Reflex Guard triggered. It's pretty good imo.



My thoughts on Bash. Based on observations and testing. Of course these are just my opinions that I want to share, and I'm not telling you guys to play my way, but these are information that'll help us improve.


- The time frame for you to activate Bash with Reflex Guard much, much stricter than blocking normally.

- On blocking normally, you can activate Bash in a time frame of about 1 second, meaning of you block an attack, and press Square even after a second later, you can still activate it.

- On Reflex Guard, you can activate Bash the moment Reflex Guard procs, with a very strict time frame, meaning if you are even 0.5 seconds late, you cannot activate it anymore. I even thought that it does not work with Reflex Guard. The clink sound you hear is not from Bash, but from the Reflex Guard itself.

- You cannot trigger Reflex Guard Bash when you are being combo'ed continuously, unlike with normal blocking. This is the main reason why I thought it does not work, mainly because I tested Reflex Guard Bash on Skeleton Wights, which likes to combo.

- Guarding around waiting for enemies to attack you so you could counter-stun is a waste of damage potential.

- You need to get it to at least Lv7 to reach 50% Stun rate (Bash starts off with 20%) for the Stun to be actually reliable, which is a waste of lots of points. It also on has 80% Stun rate at MAX.

- The stagger that Bash causes is actually long enough for you to sneak in a combo. The stun seems like a bonus. Of course, bosses don't stagger.

- The I-frame is long enough for you to sneak in an attack. You can do the basic 4-hit combo within the I-Frame.

- The damage is very low, even at higher levels. Yes, the Stun is good, but it is quite unrewarding for a counter attack.

- Investing 25 SP on a counterattack with very low damage (60 Skill Power, one hit) and the stun rate does not even reach 100% at MAX (only reaches up to 80% Stun Rate), is a waste. You're still better off with other attack or supplemental skills.
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PSN: Cervius-Noir
Dragon's Crown R3 (GMT+8:00) PSVita: Seiv (Fighter-Infernal)
#3Doom_InfinitePosted 8/10/2013 10:50:52 PM(edited)
Looking at your build my advice would be to only put 1 point in Judgment and Rebuke but that's based on my style. I would max Guard Plus though. Not a fan of maxing Bash either. I think 1 point just to have it is good enough for most.

Based on my ideal build you can have your fighter complete after all quests done around level 75 or 80 and then you can invest in skills for fun like Rebuke. Just my preference though.
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I am yours to command, point out our foes and step out of my way. - Adam, Shining Force
#4redd530Posted 8/10/2013 10:49:49 PM
Rebuke is awesome.
The whole animation is an I-Frame. <3
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PSN: Cervius-Noir
Dragon's Crown R3 (GMT+8:00) PSVita: Seiv (Fighter-Infernal)
#5uraMikkeMPosted 8/10/2013 11:39:24 PM
redd530:

I'd like to invite your attention to something. Based off my testing of activating Bash from Quick Guard, it's NOT based off of any sort of timing whatsoever. Here's some things that I have noticed, and that the rules for proccing Bash off of Quick Guard:

1. To do a Bash normally, you must block an attack, and then let go of square to trigger the Bash animation.

2. Quick guard grants you a chance to block when you are hit, and when you do not block.

3. In order for a Bash to exist, there must be a "block".

Simple right? So now test the following:

1. Block an attack, and release square to Bash.
2. Guard by holding square, release. Now when you get hit and Quick guard procs, it will always automatically bash.

Why does this happen? Because of the rule that in order for a Bash to occur, there must be a "block". Quick guard is an artificial block. In order to have bash come out, we have to manually guard. By manually guarding and not blocking an attack, causes a successful guard to trigger once Quick guard procs, finally resulting in a free bash that was not-inputted.

So no, it doesn't have to do with any sort of timing, nor is it a just-frame.

For some interesting tidbits, you can do the following:

Guard (hold Square, release after guard animation) > move to attack enemies > if you are ever hit and Quick Guard procs, you get Auto Bash.

This essentially means that you are buffering the Guard for the next scenario that you get hit and Quick Guard procs, resulting in an Auto Bash. I've tested Guard > 10s later > get hit > Quick Guard > Auto Bash, and it's the same result even if you wait 30 seconds in between the Guard and actually getting hit. I'm not exactly sure when this "resets," but I'm betting that it will not expire and will Auto Bash whenever Quick Guard procs after buffering a Guard that did not block anything.

I personally maxed Bash because I love smite paladins in D2. After understanding how all the Fighter's skills synergies with one another, I felt that Auto Bash is a very nice thing to have, even if it's only 80% stun at max level. It's not the damage I'm looking for, but it's the chance to AOE stun enemies in front of me for CC and allow me to do my combo of choice.

-Mekki
#6redd530Posted 8/11/2013 2:55:54 AM
uraMikkeM posted...
redd530:

I'd like to invite your attention to something. Based off my testing of activating Bash from Quick Guard, it's NOT based off of any sort of timing whatsoever. Here's some things that I have noticed, and that the rules for proccing Bash off of Quick Guard:

1. To do a Bash normally, you must block an attack, and then let go of square to trigger the Bash animation.

2. Quick guard grants you a chance to block when you are hit, and when you do not block.

3. In order for a Bash to exist, there must be a "block".

Simple right? So now test the following:

1. Block an attack, and release square to Bash.
2. Guard by holding square, release. Now when you get hit and Quick guard procs, it will always automatically bash.

Why does this happen? Because of the rule that in order for a Bash to occur, there must be a "block". Quick guard is an artificial block. In order to have bash come out, we have to manually guard. By manually guarding and not blocking an attack, causes a successful guard to trigger once Quick guard procs, finally resulting in a free bash that was not-inputted.

So no, it doesn't have to do with any sort of timing, nor is it a just-frame.

For some interesting tidbits, you can do the following:

Guard (hold Square, release after guard animation) > move to attack enemies > if you are ever hit and Quick Guard procs, you get Auto Bash.

This essentially means that you are buffering the Guard for the next scenario that you get hit and Quick Guard procs, resulting in an Auto Bash. I've tested Guard > 10s later > get hit > Quick Guard > Auto Bash, and it's the same result even if you wait 30 seconds in between the Guard and actually getting hit. I'm not exactly sure when this "resets," but I'm betting that it will not expire and will Auto Bash whenever Quick Guard procs after buffering a Guard that did not block anything.

I personally maxed Bash because I love smite paladins in D2. After understanding how all the Fighter's skills synergies with one another, I felt that Auto Bash is a very nice thing to have, even if it's only 80% stun at max level. It's not the damage I'm looking for, but it's the chance to AOE stun enemies in front of me for CC and allow me to do my combo of choice.

-Mekki


Nice. I'm gonna do my own tests about your findings.
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PSN: Cervius-Noir
Dragon's Crown R3 (GMT+8:00) PSVita: Seiv (Fighter-Infernal)
#7ArmoredRevenger(Topic Creator)Posted 8/11/2013 5:20:33 AM(edited)
uraMikkeM posted...
redd530:

I'd like to invite your attention to something. Based off my testing of activating Bash from Quick Guard, it's NOT based off of any sort of timing whatsoever. Here's some things that I have noticed, and that the rules for proccing Bash off of Quick Guard:

1. To do a Bash normally, you must block an attack, and then let go of square to trigger the Bash animation.

2. Quick guard grants you a chance to block when you are hit, and when you do not block.

3. In order for a Bash to exist, there must be a "block".

Simple right? So now test the following:

1. Block an attack, and release square to Bash.
2. Guard by holding square, release. Now when you get hit and Quick guard procs, it will always automatically bash.

Why does this happen? Because of the rule that in order for a Bash to occur, there must be a "block". Quick guard is an artificial block. In order to have bash come out, we have to manually guard. By manually guarding and not blocking an attack, causes a successful guard to trigger once Quick guard procs, finally resulting in a free bash that was not-inputted.

So no, it doesn't have to do with any sort of timing, nor is it a just-frame.

For some interesting tidbits, you can do the following:

Guard (hold Square, release after guard animation) > move to attack enemies > if you are ever hit and Quick Guard procs, you get Auto Bash.

This essentially means that you are buffering the Guard for the next scenario that you get hit and Quick Guard procs, resulting in an Auto Bash. I've tested Guard > 10s later > get hit > Quick Guard > Auto Bash, and it's the same result even if you wait 30 seconds in between the Guard and actually getting hit. I'm not exactly sure when this "resets," but I'm betting that it will not expire and will Auto Bash whenever Quick Guard procs after buffering a Guard that did not block anything.

I personally maxed Bash because I love smite paladins in D2. After understanding how all the Fighter's skills synergies with one another, I felt that Auto Bash is a very nice thing to have, even if it's only 80% stun at max level. It's not the damage I'm looking for, but it's the chance to AOE stun enemies in front of me for CC and allow me to do my combo of choice.

-Mekki


Thanks for the interesting info. I'm gonna try it out myself.

@redd530

I can understand that waiting around for a block could be bad for DPS IF Cover Allies didn't exist. The fact that blocking an attack literally doubles your damage for roughly 10 seconds seems like your gonna out dps your old damage as long as you don't just hold guard for 10 seconds xD.

Also I'm really loving maxed out bash atm. I'm stunning everything everywhere haha.
#8TrueDozenMarksPosted 8/11/2013 5:38:18 AM
While true, if you're going for strictly DPS, flat-out attacking the whole time and getting a 50% shot at Reflex for the damage boost will give you much more overall damage.

Even if you're holding guard to force the damage boost, you still might have to close the gap to hit the enemy, or wait a second or two for bash animation to end and then start actual attacks, etc. Manual blocking just for the sake of activating Cover Allies damage boost isn't going to be a very great overall tactic if your sole goal is the damage boost.

All that said... I'm very interested in testing that bash stuff out now, myself. Thanks for bringing it to our attention uraMikkeM.
#9redd530Posted 8/11/2013 6:57:05 AM
I tried it and it does not work.

Hold Guard > Move on to attack enemies > Auto-Guard procs > No auto Bash. :(

Am I missing something? Can you elaborate further on how you said it works?
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PSN: Cervius-Noir
Dragon's Crown R3 (GMT+8:00) PSVita: Seiv (Fighter-Infernal)
#10uraMikkeMPosted 8/11/2013 7:41:28 AM(edited)
Your guard cannot block something for it to work.

1. Hold Square for a split second (to at least see guard animation), can release after guarding.
2. Make sure nothing touched you (you did not block anything).
3. You can DPS enemies.
4. When hit and Quick Guard procs, you will Auto Bash [with buff from Cover Allies activated too].

I just rechecked this again VS enemies and tested it in town with 2P, and it is still true.

Did you make sure you had Quick Guard and Bash leveled?

Edit: Just confirmed that you can Guard buffer before exiting screen, exit the screen to the next part in level, and still get Auto Bash if Quick Guard procs on the second screen. Interesting stuff.

-Mekki