Ruminations on the series

#1LabinskyPosted 6/17/2011 11:30:33 AM
This is a topic where we discuss what the series has done right and should keep doing and also what it will hopefully do better in its third installment. This is not necessarily an "ideas" topic, as there are already enough "post your new pikmin colors here" topics on this board.

I'll start with some stuff I posted on the Pikmin 2 board, since most of you probably weren't there to read it. I've added some new stuff, so if you've read the old posts already, just skip them (they're all in italics).

Caves
Caves were a great addition to Pikmin 2. They added variety to the gameplay, allowed for more frequent checkpoints (as opposed to the 30-minute sessions you would be playing above ground), and they added a lot more length to the game. But they could have been better. For one, they didn't have to be so linear. I'm fine with some of them being linear, but I think it would be interesting if Nintendo changed it up a bit. For instance, add some puzzles that go between floors and allow you to go both up and down between sublevels and leave a captain and Pikmin on a higher level. If you could go back up to earlier sublevels, there could be multiple holes in certain levels that led to different parts of the same sublevel or entirely different sublevels.


Basically, I'm hoping for more variety in the cave structure. Caves are meant to provide an action element to the game without giving you much opportunity to recover lost pikmin in the middle. That doesn't need to change. But what if they changed the layout of the caves? What I mean is, it wouldn't have to be a series of vertically stacked holes in the ground existing without any reason. Instead, they could redefine the concept of "cave" as anything sheltered from overworld predators. For instance, one such "cave" could be the interior of a house. Another could be a series of tunnels made by some burrowing creature. And this brings me on to my next point.

Sense of scale
A lot of Pikmin 1 players were confused about how big the pikmin and Olimar actually were. Nintendo wanted to communicate that pikmin were tiny creatures, so they put a wealth of recognizable objects in Pikmin 2 to show how small they really were. In my opinion this was one of the coolest aspects of the game. But like anything, it could be improved. One of the most confusing things about Pikmin 2 was the fact that most of the plants were actually quite small. I'd like to see some giant flowers, trees, etc. Remember the first level of Snagret Hole--the one that was actually a birdhouse? That's kind of what I'm hoping for more of. They should add even more recognizable, everyday objects and even allow you to interact with some of them. Combined with the Wii U's high graphical capacity, this could really be awesome.
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#2Labinsky(Topic Creator)Posted 6/17/2011 11:34:18 AM
New Pikmin types
As others have pointed out countless times, adding new types of pikmin would likely just make it difficult to fit enough pikmin of each type into your group, given the 100 pikmin limit. On the other hand, it would be kind of boring to make no changes to Pikmin 2's setup. The way I see it, there are three options:

1) Replace purple and white pikmin. Let's face it, purples were extremely overpowered, and whites didn't really bring anything terribly new to the game. Since they've only been in one game so far, they could be taken out and replaced with other types. Of course, blue, red, and yellow could also be replaced, but they're too important to the "canon."

2) Make changes to the existing pikmin that affect strategy. I kind of want this anyway, regardless of whether either of the other options are used. Give me a reason to use one particular pikmin type on something that doesn't have an elemental attack. Make it so I want to use blues to fight bulborbs or yellows to fight wollywogs. Something like that.

3) Add separate nighttime gameplay. A bunch of people have suggested this, and I don't think it's a bad idea. You would have certain pikmin types to use in the day and certain types to use at night. And it wouldn't have to be nighttime gameplay either. You could have separate pikmin for different areas on the world map, some that can only work in caves, etc.

That's it for now. Maybe I'll think up some more stuff later.
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#3TNintendominatePosted 6/17/2011 11:43:45 AM
I agree with everything you've said... except removing Purples and Whites. Just nerfing Purple's stunning and homing abilities would be enough, and you could simply make Whites a tad less fast.

One thing I hope they keep going is how easy it is for Pikmin to die. Just one bite, one attack, they're gone. Sure, you can save them from some elements, but those count more as one-hit kills anyway, it dosn't damage them if they're saved. It's one of the things that make the series unique, your 'troops' are incredibly powerful when the situation is handled correctly, but if you just go in throwing Pikmin expecting to win you get omnomnomed.
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#4alucard4444Posted 6/17/2011 9:04:54 PM
I definitely think they should remove the purple and white pikmin. They were fine for a game, but there needs to be room for some new guys.

I think a kind of evolution system for the three original pikmin would be nice. So each one can evolve into a different color that adds a few new abilities, but takes away one so that the original is still somewhat useful. There could even be a third stage that is hard to reach, but gives you some kind of super pikmin.
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#5meatheadmarioPosted 6/17/2011 10:28:26 PM
Purple and White pikmin adds to the experience of Pikmin 2.

Just keep them, I say. Prevents ****ing and irrational paranoia.
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#6KirbyWithAGunPosted 6/17/2011 11:23:31 PM
There was real world items in Pikmin 1 you know... Like a water bottle...
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#7Labinsky(Topic Creator)Posted 6/19/2011 10:19:13 AM
KirbyWithAGun posted...
There was real world items in Pikmin 1 you know... Like a water bottle...

Sadly I've never played the game, but I read an interview once that indicated many Pikmin 1 players were confused about the size of the pikmin.
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#8Iced_ShadowsPosted 6/19/2011 3:48:57 PM
I agree with removing Purple and White Pikmin. Purples really took a huge chunk of the challenge out of Pikmin 2, and Whites... well, they didn't have much of a purpose other than moving treasure faster and getting through poison geysers.

However, another option could be that Purples and Whites are extremely rare to find. Like, to the point that you would almost need a guide just to find the flowers that produce them. This, of course, would mean that the over world in the game would have to be pretty vast... but it is a thought. Oh, and the Purples and Whites would probably be completely unnecessary. Just useful if you manage to find them, and also another reason to backtrack if you want to complete the game 100%.
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#9Boo DestroyerPosted 6/19/2011 11:35:26 PM(edited)
Labinsky posted...
New Pikmin types
As others have pointed out countless times, adding new types of pikmin would likely just make it difficult to fit enough pikmin of each type into your group, given the 100 pikmin limit. On the other hand, it would be kind of boring to make no changes to Pikmin 2's setup.


I can understand where that's coming from. New types can sometimes complicate things as such and may not have very much purpose anymore, after you've already used them for what they were intended.

You can't have a whole rainbow of Pikmin just for the sake of it. They have to have good purposes.

1) Replace purple and white pikmin. Let's face it, purples were extremely overpowered, and whites didn't really bring anything terribly new to the game. Since they've only been in one game so far, they could be taken out and replaced with other types. Of course, blue, red, and yellow could also be replaced, but they're too important to the "canon."

It was already annoying enough that those two were hard to find and make more of. I've still had the most action with the main three. There's no way these ones can be replaced, since they're the main three.

2) Make changes to the existing pikmin that affect strategy. I kind of want this anyway, regardless of whether either of the other options are used. Give me a reason to use one particular pikmin type on something that doesn't have an elemental attack. Make it so I want to use blues to fight bulborbs or yellows to fight wollywogs. Something like that.

I second this too. It would make the game much more intriguing and puts your Pikmin to better use.

3) Add separate nighttime gameplay. A bunch of people have suggested this, and I don't think it's a bad idea. You would have certain pikmin types to use in the day and certain types to use at night. And it wouldn't have to be nighttime gameplay either. You could have separate pikmin for different areas on the world map, some that can only work in caves, etc.

A bit iffy on this one myself. It does sound interesting though. A fun idea, but not so much needed.

I wouldn't object to it if it did happen, but even if not, I wouldn't really mind.



Another thing, I don't care about if they add more new enemy creatures or not. The rogues gallery of Pikmin 2 was already that complete. They're all definite keepers, and this is one area which I feel has already become fully evolved and can evolve no further.
#10Boo DestroyerPosted 6/20/2011 9:07:40 AM
But long story short, Pikmin 2 is one of those things that seems so fully evolved, that it could be nigh difficult for the next game to evolve the experience even further.