Pikmin 3

I hope the time limit comes back, its removal was one of the main things that hurt Pikmin 2 (that and Caves, where efficiency is no longer an issue so it basically becomes an action game). As confirmed in a topic I made, basically no one who was over the age of 10 when they played Pikmin 1 ever ran out of time anyway. Did it make the game a bit more tense? Sure. But that's kind of the point.


One other thing I really, really want is the ability to order one of the leaders to walk somewhere on the map, particularly now that there's 4. I don't care if they do this idiotically and walk through any hazards on the way, I just want some way to say "I want person X to go here" without having to move them there myself.
---
http://terosclassicgaming.blogspot.com/ - Watch me beat "NES Low G Man"
http://www.backloggery.com/tero - My backloggery

KnickKnack12 posted...

Also, what do you mean better plot? Do you like being constrained to a measly month?

So you're telling me that Pikmin 2 took you longer than 30 days? I find that hard to believe, unless if you really suck at these games.

Actually, if you want to talk about the time constraint in Pikmin 1, I was able to beat the game within the time limit even the first time I played it, and I was 6 when that game came out. I understand that won't be the case for everyone, but by the 2nd or 3rd try most people should be able to see the good ending.
Either way, the time limit doesn't matter, and I don't really care what they do with it. The challenge from Pikmin 1 came not from the time limit, but from the actual gameplay itself. Yeah, I beat the game within 30 days on the first try. But I lost a lot of pikmin in the process and wasted a lot of time trying to figure out how to get certain ship parts. Almost every part in the game was challenging to get, unlike in Pikmin 2 where treasures are practically handed to you. In Pikmin 1, it actually took me a couple of playthroughs to realize that I was getting certain ship parts the "wrong" way. I could still get them, but I was using really inefficient methods. Pikmin 2 treasures don't even require any thought process to get, and therefore there is no "right" way or "wrong" way. You simply send your pikmin over to retrieve an object in plain sight.

Also, like it or not, the original game in my opinion was meant to present a speed running challenge. It is a RTS and that is simply the nature of those games. Pikmin may not necessarily be a long game (About 7.5 hours if you play all 30 days without resetting any days), but it had the most replay value of any game I have ever played. Every time I played the game I discovered new ways to get ship parts faster, which is why I eventually became interested in speed running the game. The number of options in Pikmin 1, if you would just take a moment of your time to investigate them, is astounding. People complain about the length of Pikmin 1? How can you do that and at the same time complain that people are speed running it? Why don't some of you anti-speed runners actually try it some time? You'll get triple the amount of play time challenging yourself in Pikmin 1 then you would ever get in Pikmin 2. The only challenge worth doing in Pikmin 2 is a purple-less run (except for the treasures that require them), and even that, as has already been pointed out, is pathetically easy.

Pikmin 2 does do certain things right. The piklopedia was a great edition to the game, and I loved reading each entry. The challenge mode was more detailed and had much greater variety. And the controls were better; using the c-stick was no longer required to throw pikmin faster, and the pikmin AI was much improved.

However, Pikmin 2 completely fails when it comes to meaningful challenge, strategy (in an Real Time Strategy game!), replay value, and even exploration. What is the point of exploring an area that has an identical layout to Pikmin 1's maps, but a different theme? And the caves added no incentive to explore anything, since 90% of what you were collecting ended being in randomly generated underground caves. Each cave was generic according the area (all Valley of Repose caves were snowy and looked mostly identical, same with other areas), meaning that caves quickly became boring due to the redundancy.

You don't have to like Pikmin 1 more, but accept that in many ways it was a better game with more challenge and depth. Pikmin 2's "depth" was merely just a fake extension of redundant gameplay. There is a reason why people are still competing against each other to speed run and challenge themselves in Pikmin 1, 11 years after it launched.
---
Contrary to popular belief, the "M" on Mario's cap actually stands for Mario~FuzzY__

kirbymastah posted...

This, though I would argue that caves being boring is more subjective, and that challenge mode really tests your ability to improvise strategy on the fly in pikmin 2, but whatever. I wouldn't say that there is no point in exploring pikmin 2 areas, since they're not EXACTLY the same as pikmin 1 (and valley of repose is unique, and wistful wild is awesome), but really, these are subjective points. What's not subjective is that pikmin 2 has less focus on strategy (At least in the main game), and that pikmin 2 is not better than pikmin 1 in every way possible.

And if you wanna know... Yes, people DO still speedrun pikmin1, both the main game and challenge mode, and pikmin 1 is officially now able to be completed in 6 days after 11 years of work. pikmin 2 has nothing like that. Nobody cares since no matter how well you do, it's impossible to beat the 8-day challenge due to forced game-mechanics (which the 8-day challenge is still easier than even the 9-day pikmin 1 challenge thanks to purple pikmin and sprays)

I agree, the areas for the most part were different enough. I really only had a problem with the Perplexing Pool; if I remember correctly, that place is nearly identical to Distant Spring, except with different hazards/enemies. I would have elaborated on that, but I reached the post length limit. I did NOT like the caves at all, but that is indeed subjective.

Also, I still can't believe that someone actually figured out how to do a 6 day challenge without hacking the game. I just found out about it a couple of weeks ago, but I don't think anyone has actually done a 6 day 0 death challenge, right? I'm going to try it myself, but first I need to get a proper dazzle setup; I just need to order a usb extension cable and possibly a spitter cable.

And, I'm not sure if you know this already, but someone finally beat the challenge mode world record for Distant Spring in Pikmin 1 just a month ago. Here's a video of the last 2 1/2 minutes: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SOYRUhZY02k&feature=plcp
---
Contrary to popular belief, the "M" on Mario's cap actually stands for Mario~FuzzY__

TheAdoringFan posted...

KnickKnack12 posted...

Also, what do you mean better plot? Do you like being constrained to a measly month?

So you're telling me that Pikmin 2 took you longer than 30 days? I find that hard to believe, unless if you really suck at these games.

I've beaten 2 in the minimum 8 days. (I've beaten 1 in 9 as well) So insults aren't going to make 2 seem like the piece of garbage you think it is. (I've made several files just for farming Pikmin, which is why I like having more than a month to do so.)

As to the rest of your rant, I wasn't saying that 1 is vastly inferior to 2 in every single are, I was merely stating that both games have highs and that 2's positives edge out the original. They're still both great games, and I still play both from time to time. I'm merely saying that I enjoy 2 a bit more than 1.

kirbymastah posted...

KnickKnack12 posted...

I'm merely saying that I enjoy 2 a bit more than 1

There is nothing wrong with saying this; I pretty much like both pikmins equally.

But you lost all credibility when you say this:

As to the rest of your rant, I wasn't saying that 1 is vastly inferior to 2 in every single are, I was merely stating that both games have highs and that 2's positives edge out the original. They're still both great games, and I still play both from time to time

And then the previous page, you said this:

I'm honestly surprised that some people perfer the original. 2 surpassed it in every way.

anything wrong here?

That was a humorous generalization. I'm sorry if that didn't come across sir. :(