A question about Pikmin for GC.

#11-Jester-Masque-Posted 2/10/2013 1:41:27 AM
Really? It only really happens to me against the Puffstool, and even then, it's not a problem every time. I avoid swarming the Puffstool for this reason.

I don't really know what you mean when you say that swarming is a "redundant" tactic though. Against bulborbs and bulbears swarming is, in my experience, a much safer way to fight. I never swarm wollywogs though. I used to, but it almost always lead to disaster for me.
#12ArtOWarfarePosted 2/10/2013 6:00:19 AM
I think "redundant" might not have been the word he wanted so much as "common". It is less common in Pikmin because the purples offer a new tactic that works better than swarming most of the time: just throw a bunch of purples at the enemy.
#13-Jester-Masque-Posted 2/10/2013 4:24:38 PM
ArtOWarfare posted...
I think "redundant" might not have been the word he wanted so much as "common". It is less common in Pikmin because the purples offer a new tactic that works better than swarming most of the time: just throw a bunch of purples at the enemy.


He was specifically talking about the first game though. Maybe it was a typo. Haha whatever.

Swarming is definitely the best way to take out bulborbs and bulbears in the first game. In Pikmin 2, I mostly just use swarming on non-threatening enemies.
#14kirbymastahPosted 2/10/2013 8:59:29 PM
Swarming is incredibly dangerous in pikmin 1 due to the crushing glitch, especially with the wollywogs. And no, swarming is not effective against bulborbs at all, compared to tossing pikmin very quickly. The only way you can safely kill bulbears is with 100 reds (well, safest with swarming). I'd rather toss pikmin on their backs since I always go for no-death, and swarming always risks death by the crushing glitch.

Swarming is also dangerous if you dont' finish the enemy, since if a monster eats a pikmin, damage done during its eating animation is not dealt until right after it digests (aka pikmin is dead). The exceptions are the small enemies that are squashed by tossing a pikmin (aka dwarf bulborbs/bulbears and sheargrub/wigs), where you can finish them before they're done digesting.

This isn't the case in pikmin 2, as you can deal damage during a monster's eating animation, and if the monster dies before digesting, the almost-victim pikmin pops out of its body after it dies. But then again, even without crushing glitch, swarming isn't as effective anyways in pikmin 2 since you have lolpurples and I guess it just isn't as powerful as in pikmin 1.
#15-Jester-Masque-Posted 2/11/2013 5:28:50 PM
Yeah, I learned a long time ago that swarming wollywogs is a bad idea. It's far too easy for pikmin to get knocked off as the wollywog jumps and then squished as it comes down. Calling the knocked-off pikmin to you will only make more pikmin come off of the wollywog to the danger zone below.

I don't really know why you're saying "no, swarming is not effective against bulborbs at all" when I just said that it is. I wasn't just pulling that out of nowhere. I've played through the game dozens of times and I almost always swarming sleeping bulborbs and bulbears. Most of the time, I can kill them really quickly and I don't lose a single pikmin. I've tried killing them by throwing pikmin on their backs and it can work, but I find it much more difficult and much slower then swarming. The biggest catch to my method is that (especially for bulbears) you need to have a really big army. In the GC version, the crushing glitch so rarely happens that it's never deterred me from using this strategy.

I used to swarm sheargrubs/wigs too, but I find now that it's safer to pick them off with a thrown pikmin.

I was just thinking: Wouldn't it be awesome if they made new versions of the first two games with co-op. Sure, there's a couple of problems with this: 1) They already made new versions of these games and 2) Changing the first game to accommodate for this would almost certainly detract from the story and atmosphere. Still, I think it would be a lot of fun gameplay wise to be able to multitask like that.

You land in the distant spring and one player takes some blues to each of the stick bridges while the other player gets the Interstellar Radio. On the next day. One player takes some reds to kill the bulbears while the other player takes care of the stone walls with yellows. I'd love to play through the first two games with you guys.
#16shadowreaper7Posted 2/12/2013 1:37:05 AM
-Jester-Masque- posted...
Yeah, I learned a long time ago that swarming wollywogs is a bad idea. It's far too easy for pikmin to get knocked off as the wollywog jumps and then squished as it comes down. Calling the knocked-off pikmin to you will only make more pikmin come off of the wollywog to the danger zone below.

I don't really know why you're saying "no, swarming is not effective against bulborbs at all" when I just said that it is. I wasn't just pulling that out of nowhere. I've played through the game dozens of times and I almost always swarming sleeping bulborbs and bulbears. Most of the time, I can kill them really quickly and I don't lose a single pikmin. I've tried killing them by throwing pikmin on their backs and it can work, but I find it much more difficult and much slower then swarming. The biggest catch to my method is that (especially for bulbears) you need to have a really big army. In the GC version, the crushing glitch so rarely happens that it's never deterred me from using this strategy.

I used to swarm sheargrubs/wigs too, but I find now that it's safer to pick them off with a thrown pikmin.

I was just thinking: Wouldn't it be awesome if they made new versions of the first two games with co-op. Sure, there's a couple of problems with this: 1) They already made new versions of these games and 2) Changing the first game to accommodate for this would almost certainly detract from the story and atmosphere. Still, I think it would be a lot of fun gameplay wise to be able to multitask like that.

You land in the distant spring and one player takes some blues to each of the stick bridges while the other player gets the Interstellar Radio. On the next day. One player takes some reds to kill the bulbears while the other player takes care of the stone walls with yellows. I'd love to play through the first two games with you guys.


Yes, redundant was a typo. I had previously typed up another sentence which used redundant in correct context and must have gotten rid of it aside from this word which i failed to pick out.

But yeah, swarming in pikmin 1 would be more useful if it wasn't for the no damage during food. and the crushing glitch.

And i agree with the co-op mode, it'd be interesting to see the actual times now in speed runs to see if you can best a single player (note: time, not days) which i am in no doubt is entirely possible.
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#17-Jester-Masque-Posted 2/12/2013 2:07:53 AM
Ah yes, I do that too sometimes. I gave you the benefit of the doubt. ;)

Like I said though, I have found that swarming sleeping bulborbs and bulbears to be a much faster and safer approach than throwing pikmin. Actually, there was a time a couple of years ago when I was feeling strangely sad about how my method didn't feel like the "proper" way to fight them, as seen in trailers. My way is less of a battle and more of a sneaky assassination. I would like to see how you guys are effectively killing them with thrown pikmin. I have been able to do it, but since I often screw it up I usually just go for the swarm. Again, the crushing glitch isn't a problem for me in the GC version except for against the Puffstool.

I'm really excited about how Pikmin 3 is shaking up the combat a bit. I believe that the swarm function has been replaced with a "charge" ability, which may not be as effective against enemies that they used to be effective against. This would encourage players (or maybe just me) to throw pikmin more often.

Also, with the lock-on feature that we've seen, it'll be easier to move around an enemy while keeping the camera focused on them.