Why is hydraulics in the game files but not in the game?

#21EarlJensonPosted 1/28/2014 2:45:54 AM
But it makes sense if something is only partially complete at launch.

For example... if there are a bunch of interiors on the disc that aren't used. This could be because the missions that would use those interiors were always intended as DLC, and those scenes and missions that would use them weren't complete at launch... in this case, the DLC is a smaller download because the art assets are already present.

Hydraulics might be in the files but not in the game because it requires animations that weren't done at launch. Maybe it'll be part of some Vagos-related DLC, and including it at launch means that that data won't have to be added to the existing vehicle data when the content is released.
And if there is a Vagos-related DLC, it'd be justified to exclude hydraulics even if it was complete at launch because it would then be an aspect of some larger experience. In that context, hydraulics would be a nice and interesting thing to have in the original game... but would be a vital bit of color in a DLC, and including it at launch is both unnecessary and undercuts the impact of the DLC.
#22B0vrilPosted 1/28/2014 8:08:52 AM
spankythesloth posted...
But it's not supplemental if it was part of the original disc.


But it is supplemental content, because you haven't bought it.

If it's content that's generally expected to be in the retail release then it's an issue.

For example, if GTA V was released with 2 guns & another 10 locked on the disc, or held back for download later, then that's pretty cheap, because you'd expect far more than 2 guns in the retail game.

It's still supplemental content though.


spankythesloth posted...
That kind of bothers me, when they already have stuff at launch that they plan on charging extra for as DLC. DLC should be created after launch. If you've got something finished by the launch date but hold it back so you can sell it as DLC later, that's just wrong.


I completely disagree here. It shouldn't bother you at all. There is nothing inherently wrong with a studio developing DLC content in tandem with the retail games development. Generally speaking studios are not holding back content; they are purposely developing DLC. This stuff is usually planned out well in advance. It exists because it's DLC. It's not usually stuff that would otherwise be on the disc. In fact it often makes alot more logistical sense to start DLC development long before the game is released.

Certainly no one should expect all content created during development to be in the retail game. Game development isn't linear like that any more.
#23ilikestufPosted 1/28/2014 1:30:19 PM
I expect Hydraulics came up in the source files because of Midnight Club LA, which supported Hydraulics.

A lot of the cars, driving physics, car upgrades, game mechanics, etc. in GTA V have their roots in MCLA. They probably fork-lifted (and modified) that code from MCLA, with all its components.
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#24spankytheslothPosted 1/28/2014 2:28:36 PM
B0vril posted...
spankythesloth posted...
But it's not supplemental if it was part of the original disc.


But it is supplemental content, because you haven't bought it.

If it's content that's generally expected to be in the retail release then it's an issue.

For example, if GTA V was released with 2 guns & another 10 locked on the disc, or held back for download later, then that's pretty cheap, because you'd expect far more than 2 guns in the retail game.

It's still supplemental content though.


spankythesloth posted...
That kind of bothers me, when they already have stuff at launch that they plan on charging extra for as DLC. DLC should be created after launch. If you've got something finished by the launch date but hold it back so you can sell it as DLC later, that's just wrong.


I completely disagree here. It shouldn't bother you at all. There is nothing inherently wrong with a studio developing DLC content in tandem with the retail games development. Generally speaking studios are not holding back content; they are purposely developing DLC. This stuff is usually planned out well in advance. It exists because it's DLC. It's not usually stuff that would otherwise be on the disc. In fact it often makes alot more logistical sense to start DLC development long before the game is released.

Certainly no one should expect all content created during development to be in the retail game. Game development isn't linear like that any more.


Agree to disagree I guess. I expect developers to devote their whole time to the retail game before launch, not spend a bunch of time on DLC to make money...that should come later. Look at games like Borderlands...they develop DLC after the game is released.
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#25EarlJensonPosted 1/29/2014 1:05:20 AM
spankythesloth posted...
I expect developers to devote their whole time to the retail game before launch...

There's really no reason to expect that.

Different people do different things, and will complete their tasks for the retail game at different times. Rather than have those people stand around doing nothing while they wait for all scenes to be voiced, or all animations to be complete, they can keep doing what they're there for.

I mean, the guys who model buildings may have all their stuff done well before the guys who model vehicles. If DLC is going to include new buildings, should they just do nothing? Or should they model those buildings while everyone else is completing their work? And the guys who model vehicles... they've finished everything that's going to be in at retail, but there's a whole list or cars that will be added in DLC. Shouldn't they get to those while the animators work on the jacking animations for the already modeled vehicles?

Just because something is on the disc doesn't mean it's totally complete. Again, going back to the thread topic of hydraulics... maybe the data is there, maybe the models are there, maybe the animations are there... but it still doesn't work because by launch they hadn't gotten the mod shops that would apply hydraulics upgrades to work properly.... because it was always intended as DLC, and so the deadline for full implementation didn't coincide with the retail release.


Better to have part of something than all of nothing. And it's better to keep your employees busy with content you know you're eventually going to need than have them spinning their wheels. After all, they're workers, and workers need to work; if you tell them "no, it's cool, we'll call you back when we're ready for DLC pack 4", they're going to find other employment in the meantime, and who knows if you'll be able to get them back when your timetable calls for DLC 4 to start being worked on.
#26Mr_ShabbsPosted 1/29/2014 11:30:20 AM
Street Fighter 4, Perfect example of all DLC present on disc at launch, not simply extra files to help the ease of download or because parts of the team were done and moved on. The hackers showed us that line was BS with that game. The download after you paid for it was a tiny file that just unlocked the content on disc.

I fully agree that the dev team should be soley focused on the game up to its release and than start working on DLC. If part of the team finishes before the other, guess what you have time to go back and re polish the work and make it better. Not churn out more buildings and content that is going to be held for additional money down the line.
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#27B0vrilPosted 1/29/2014 1:08:08 PM
Mr_Shabbs posted...
Street Fighter 4, Perfect example of all DLC present on disc at launch, not simply extra files to help the ease of download or because parts of the team were done and moved on. The hackers showed us that line was BS with that game. The download after you paid for it was a tiny file that just unlocked the content on disc.


Why do you see this as an inherent issue though? Because the content could have technically been included as part of the original retail game & hence it should have been?

You seem to automatically assume there is some sort of trickery going on, which is not automatically true. It's up to the developer/publisher as to what & how much content they're going to build & what's going to be in the retail game & what's going to be DLC.


Mr_Shabbs posted...
I fully agree that the dev team should be soley focused on the game up to its release and than start working on DLC. If part of the team finishes before the other, guess what you have time to go back and re polish the work and make it better. Not churn out more buildings and content that is going to be held for additional money down the line.


You say "held for additional money" as if they are trying to cheat you, but that's not necessarily true.

Of course the retail game content should be polished & stable. DLC shouldn't be taking up development time if a game is busted. But you can't think of a retail game as all development work done within a set amount of time, it's much more like commissioned work, because big games are no longer just one release worth of content.
#28cid128Posted 2/1/2014 4:36:16 PM
its not like they had hydraulics in the trailers, on the other side of the coin they clearly advertised the skimmer and the hydra, which for me is the main reason i bought the game so thats my two cents. all in all its a good game and i gotta give R* alot of credit.
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#29TheIastspartanPosted 2/2/2014 12:17:29 AM
I just want my precious skimmer back.