Best counter to paladin spam?

#1IceAssassin2Posted 3/20/2008 4:27:28 PM
Ok me and my friends have got into this bad habit of just spamming paladins at each other, (2v2) Its getting to the point where its just stupid.

There is no way to stop the trade carts and their farms are always well behind their lines, which incidentally are guarded by about 90 paladins. So an economy war is not all that viable. same thing with my team.

problem:

If you attack with your 100 ish paladins you get slaughtered by castles and towers and their paladins.

if they attack you same thing happens.

I have been trying to find some counters for them but I cannot find anything in game that will stand up to that many paladins, pikemen just die straight out at those numbers, onagers- even massed, cant get close. archers, well lets not go there...

Any tactics I could use? don't care how underhand they are anything is better then a huge paladin stalemate.


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#2ChaosArbiterPosted 3/20/2008 5:02:44 PM
1) Saracen Mamelukes. Paladins go bye-bye!
2) *HUGE* numbers of pikes; IIRC, a Paladin can take on one or two Pikemen without dying, but Pikemen win out eventually because they're cheaper and faster to make.
3) Walled-in archers and siege equipment - the Paladins can't get at them.
4) Castle/Tower creep. If you're Teutons, TC's form an acceptable substitute. Basically advance your defensive line in a leapfrog manner such that each line protects the one in front of it.
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#3ChaosArbiterPosted 3/20/2008 5:03:51 PM
... Or, since it's you and your friends, you could house-rule no heavy cavalry until you get over your Paladin-crush.
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#4IceAssassin2(Topic Creator)Posted 3/21/2008 4:54:47 AM
they would never agree to that =( il test out the saracen method though, are heavy cammel any good as a substitute if I dont wish to play as saracen?

the advancing leapfrog idea is appealing, I have been testing the turkish recently so that should in theory work quite well.

Il report back after ive played them again, thanks for the tips.

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#5IceAssassin2(Topic Creator)Posted 3/21/2008 4:59:42 AM
Ps. They use pretty much exclusively spanish and franks every game, and the guy on my team usually goes spanish too. I normally switch teams because I get bored quick =/ normally play byzantine, however tried teutons for their military however I cant hack their economy. Currently playing turkish because Its a team I have never tried before.

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#6ChaosArbiterPosted 3/21/2008 8:26:58 AM
Turks are stuck with Spearmen and Skirmishers, and I believe they're stuck with Cavaliers. Heavy Camels might be enough to take out Paladins, but they're a tad more fragile than Mamelukes - I don't use them much. Depending on how well they micro-manage (and whether they turn Defensive Stance on), though, you might be able to lure small groups into Cav-Archer/Janissary traps using Hussars.
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I am the Sabre of Quiet Reflection.
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#7StiphilisPosted 3/21/2008 3:58:32 PM
Heavy Camels, Elite Teutonic Knights, Mamelukes, and Elephants beat Paladins in equal numbers.

The pathfinding on 200 Paladins fighting another 200 Paladins near towers and castles sucks. I don't know why one of you doesn't make Paladins while the other makes ranged backup. Obviously Mamelukes would be the best choice in that case, but Mangudai, Heavy Scorpions, Conquistadores, and Janissaries would all suffice.
#8Drippy89Posted 3/22/2008 12:40:44 AM
Pikeman are the best solution for Frankish paladins. Make sure you have about 7 barracks continuously making pikemen. You will lose more pikemen than you will kill palading, but in the end, you can keep making pikemen until he runs out of gold.

Also, always make sure you have constant damage. Have pikemen taking the dmg and causing most the dmg, but also have archers in the back or a different range class.
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#9StiphilisPosted 3/22/2008 3:45:06 AM
AOSKershaw1, end team game it would IMO seem to be more economically efficient for the Paladin producer than the Pike producer. It takes about 3 standard (not Viking, etc) Pikemen to beat 1 Frankish Paladin. That means 105F/75W vs 60F/75G. In a team game, gold limits are not a factor because of trade (of course trade is slower than mining unless on a huge map).

Given that both the Pike producer and the Paladin producer have to gather at least 60F, I've subtracted that from the 105F/75W vs 60F/75G equation. Now the question is, can the Pike producer gather 45F and 75W faster than trade can produce 75G given that equal amounts of population room are spent on gathering (ie 50 villagers gathering the 45F/75W and 50 carts gathering 75G)?

I would think, over time, that the trade carts would be more pop efficient provided they have a decent trade route, and consequently the Paladin spammer would have a better economy than the Pike spammer in a team game. It sounds weird, but if someone were to do the math on gathering rates I'm pretty sure the trader wins. It is an absolute certainty that the trader would win in AoK:TC, given the additional trade techs, but in AoK I'd still expect them to at least break even with the Pike spammer.
#10IceAssassin2(Topic Creator)Posted 3/22/2008 4:43:45 AM
Ok the report, my friends hamachi went nuts so we decided to play 2 on 1 seeing how long my friend could hold out. So I guess it was not really a fair comparison to a 2v2 game with regards to trade.

the heavy camels did win against spanish paladins however after that they were a little useless, I mean for creating chaos in an enemy base they were not as strong which led to them getting killed off quicker. At lest they did their paladin killing job.

I will report back again probably today once my friend has rebooted his laptop in a proper 2v2 game.


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xxmaramm: STOP THE HACKING! rascalz: are you on crack?
runescape name: masterjedi16