Let's have a calm discussion on duping.

#41Gray_wolf1119Posted 10/8/2012 9:27:22 AM
Kiyosuki_Mk2 posted...
That is another topic that inevitably comes up whenever duping is discussed, whether the lovgevity being sacrificed is "meaningful" or not. And you know...essentially, item hunting really is padding out a games' longevity in a bit of a shameless way.

But then again, that's one of the points of a game like this. It's a loot-hunt game, which you know...you could argue when it all comes down to it, is essentially trying to waste your time but...as twisted as it sounds that's half the point.

But ultimately like I said, it comes down to just how strong the items actually being duped are...because aside from loot-hunting, the other point is to just have fun with it. If an item or set of items is so strong that when it becomes duped to the point of commonality, so that everyone who doesn't want to play that way essentially can't play the online as much as others could, that's when it's a problem.

If duping can to a certain extent still allow people who don't want to do it the ability to have fun and feel like they're contributing to something, which more often than not is the case, then while I can't stress enough that it IS still cheating at the game, it's easy to let go because we can all still enjoy the game. But when it starts to impede on that, that's when something's wrong I believe.


Yes, it does come up often enough. Even though it is a loot hunt game i shouldn't be able to look at whites and say trash, greens and say mostly trash. The loot should have meaning. Unique characteristics or amazing randomness. Something that gives me pause and say maybe its worth it. In this game, I can look at a manufacturer and rarity color and thats all i need to know. If however, i was able to run into a full auto Dahl rifle (hipfire and ADS) or a normal torgue/tediore weapon instead of just manufacturer gimmicks I would probably value those unique characteristics more instead of them being forced on me at every turn. As it stands the only guns that are do things differently are either scaled quest rewards or legendary drop.
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#42CountBrassPosted 10/8/2012 9:30:55 AM
This argument has literally been going on since PSO for the Dreamcast. It wasn't civil then either. One person already summed up my take so I will just repeat it here:

1) no one cares if people cheat in their single player game, grats you bought a game you apparently dont have the time or patience to play. All youre guilty of is having more money than sense.


2) people care very much if you cheat in public games because it compromises the gameplay.

Thats LITERALLY IT.


There yeah have it. The only argument to have is HOW MUCH it compromises gameplay. You guys have fun with that bit - I've seen some well written thoughts on that point already
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#43MosebysRangersPosted 10/8/2012 9:41:14 AM
My view.

First how is duping cheating?

The only difference is between duping and trading in this game which is not only allowed but encouraged by the nature of the game with co-op. The developers even provide storage containers for individuals keep. The only difference in this game between trading and duping is when that in trading/giving the item given is just permamently gone from the giver's inventory where as in duping they get to keep it. Very fine line of difference. One at least IMO that does "not qualify as cheating".

Argument by some that the developers cannot help themselves by not preventing dashboarding to prevent this. I just don't buy this arguement. I believe the developer's deliberately put the process in because they know how complicated the system is in generating the items and wanted this process included to encouraging the trading of some the really unique option. By leaving/providing the option via the method currently involved save them money of creating additional online save space ala "Sacred 2 of creating bigger chests to save everything that people may find for others".

How does it effect longevity of the game. Absolutely undeterminable. How long individuals will play the game will be up to the individual and not whether they chose to dupe or not to dupe (Shakespeare would love it). If anything duping may increase longevity as it encourages co-op play back to trading.

Overall duping is an individual choice which involves individual's paying (hopefully they did) $60.00 dollars and it's up to them to decide how they get the most enjoyment from the game the fact that the original owner of item gets to keep the item after trading is actually more correct because it allows the owner if they did find it through their exploration makes it rewarding for the them also in being allowed to keep and share at same time.

Just my views on duping.
#44spfurm01Posted 10/8/2012 10:17:08 AM
The major argument I've seen against duping is that it "harms the gameplay experience of those who don't dupe." But I'm curious to see what that actually means.

because it devalues the rarity of the items
I don't see the logic here. Certainly, there's more in circulation, but there is no real-world monetary value of items in this game. Also, there's not a finite quantity of these items, they will continue to drop. The only value items have in this game is the value that you put on them. So if you spent 15 hours farming for a CC and enjoyed it, nobody else can take that accomplishment away from you.

because as soon as you take your character with duped items online it affects my game
I interpret this in multiple ways:
people joining my game with the best equipment make it too easy
This is going to be true regardless of whether or not the items were duped or farmed for. A person with the best equipment will Also, IMO, this game is not that hard, even with average equipment.
people join my game and dupe or ask for dupes randomly!
This, IMO, is the only REAL issue with duping. If someone asks you to dupe for them or they would like to dupe for you, ask them not to and if you're host ask them to leave your game. Getting hostile only further divides the community. If they keep nagging you about duping, kick them or leave the game.

duping shortens the longevity of the game
Is there no reason to play the game after you have good equipment? As others have pointed out , does farming add worthwhile longevity to the game when the drop rates are punishingly low? I assume a lot of people duping/trading for CC/Bee are probably looking to save some time farming for better items than what they have.
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#45Squall954Posted 10/8/2012 10:21:40 AM
I only play with friends, so it doesn't really bother me. Duping seems like it would take the fun out of finding newer and better guns. The only thing I'd ever endorse duping for would be for a head/skin, which doesn't affect gameplay at all. That's not to say I frown upon people who dupe guns and such; I just personally don't see the point, and since it doesn't bother me in any way, dupe away.

That said, if someone wanted to dupe me a G4l4h4d head.... ;D
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#46Rebel_GPosted 10/8/2012 12:00:13 PM
This entire topic needs to stop being duplicated.
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