All Borderlands 2 LOOPHOLES *spoilers*

#91Dtothe3Posted 11/3/2012 7:48:52 AM
1) -- As mentioned there are some huge robots in there. Saturn being the prominent example, but there are plenty of varieties of the robots that work well together.

Remember a huge amount of Vault Hunters were destroyed very early on in their adventure. You are somewhat unique for even getting past the train portion of the game.

2) -- Pretty sure one of the developers (whos name escapes me) said he wished they hadn't given lines to the new you machines, as people began to consider them canon. This is not the case, merely a plot device. In the first game where no-one important died, it didn't really matter. With a major death, BL2 does have a plot hole. But it is merely inadvertent.

3) -- It may be laying the groundwork for Mordecai to return as a playable character. Possibly using a "Bloodwing baby" and having her as a female simply made it easier. This could be absolute BS but as my favourite character it is the option I am rooting for.

4) -- Im not sure if Crawmerax was actually ever referenced outside of the one mission. So personally I would not use it as canon. But remember that it was implied they worked together throughout BL1. As each split off to do various tasks which involved keeping Sanctuary safe. Necessary, but it meant they couldn't work as a team against Jack.

Jack avoided fighting "The Destroyer". It is up for debate whether this was cowardice or being clever. But if you presume he had Wilheim and was unwilling to fight, you have to make the assumption he wasn't all he was cracked up to be.

5) -- Phasewalk, Phaselock, Phaseshift. Apparently her power was a phaseshift, which was different from charging the key (as Lillith could also do it). I presume she is something similar to Skynet in that she can remotely control linked electronics.

6) -- Guy earlier in the thread nailed this with it could be programmed into her arm. My theory had more to do with it being a rough galaxy, and learning how to shoot could be part and parcel of growing up. Partially explains why Tiny Tina is the explosives expert she is.

7) -- She needed a hand up. If we read into it we can leave her there and she will go no-where for hours. There is no time limit and she never re-spawns. It actually shows the New U Station as being a player only device.

8) -- Remember when Claptrap controlled all those old enemies? There was no mention of him actually using a New U station to resurrect them before controlling them. In fact one of the people still has a nice hole for us to play with.

8) -- Maybe it is a licensing agreement on his part. You can use his gun until you die. Then it becomes his again. The Bloodshots treated him with utter reverence, so maybe he gets a pass on that basis.

9) -- Her parents got killed by a bandit. She is not untouchable, but maybe the ends dont justify the means. She could probably just hide and set off some remote explosives to knock a big hole in their group.

10) -- Jack treated Claptrap as a huge threat. Did you not see the amount of stairs at the end of the game?

AND MY PERSONAL FAVORITE


11) -- She apologizes instantly. Remember you are still needed to defeat Jack, taking you up to Sanctuary would have meant you couldn't escape due to it going off the fast travel network. Whilst not explicitly stated, if you hadn't have been teleported out of sanctuary, it would have been the end of the road sooner rather then later.

Again this is mostly hypothesis so dissect away.
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#92spfurm01Posted 11/3/2012 7:51:14 AM
1) Jack did make bigger robots. Also, many of his robots seemed pretty expendable, Exp loaders and Junk Loaders especially. Thirdly, digistructing objects appears to cost no money whatsoever; you catch a ride for free, you digistruct new tediore guns for free. Perhaps it costs him nothing to make new and expendable robots? Fourth, Jack wanted to conquer Pandora, but wanted to have the Warrior to do it. Nuking the planet could cause catastrophic climate change, not to mention possible volatile reactions to eridium.

2) In the overlook mission you pretty much have to hack the fast travel location to get sanctuary back on the map. I think the bigger plot hole is that if Jack really controlled the fast travel network, why didn't he just send legions of robots into the center of sanctuary and bypass the shield? Also, about Jack controlling Angel, it seems pretty evident that he doesn't keep constant tabs on her.

3) I don't understand what you're saying here. IIRC Bloodwing was always a girl, but I never played as Mordecai so I dunno.

4) Have you seen the scaling of guns in BL2? I found better pistols than anything in BL1 when I was level 18. If we're going to argue this in terms of game mechanics, the BL1 characters couldn't have been higher than an effective 25th level at the end of BL1.

5) So what if angel was a siren? Her powers seem to be all technology related, so if you want to get further into the whole "why didn't Jack stop her" business it could be that she was using her powers to hide her dealings with you.

6) Characters use guns to defend themselves. Obviously at some point before/after they became a Vault Hunter they learned how to use them. I don't see what the big deal is.

7) People have already answered this one pretty well.

8) I would love if jack was still alive

8) The bloodshots worshipped Marcus as the Gun-Bringer, I wouldn't be surprised if he had connections within the bandits.Marcus seems like a play all sides and get profit kind of guy.

9) IIRC her place was by default closed and she opened a door for you to enter

10) People have also answered this one pretty well

11) It was an accidental by product of the warp. She also warps you 20 feet away in the Firehawk's lair and into Marcus's storage, and I'm betting neither of those were her intended targets either.
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#93Reiver_NeriahzPosted 11/3/2012 7:55:03 AM
GameplayZero posted...
3CDED posted...
hyperion controls the NEW U stations right?

surely then all jack needs to do is terminate rolands NEW U account. therefore preventing him respawning

why the F*** didn't he do that to the player?


Exactly. WHO GETS TO COME BACK FROM NEW U STATIONS? WHAT ABOUT THE BANDITS?


THEY DON'T ACTUALLY EXIST. It's the developer having fun with the player!
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#94yediPosted 11/3/2012 8:10:51 AM
For number 6, I was certain the Simpsons cleared this up long ago. Public schooling.
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#95TheHunger82Posted 11/3/2012 8:11:52 AM
GameplayZero posted...

8) The obvious New U Station. Jack dies and thats it? He freakin controls the New U Station. I understand this only a game mechanic not used in the story, but why not explain that. I honestly still think Jack is alive.

8) Marcus. So he gets the guns from dead adventurers. I'd like to see this. He would be killed in an instant. While he might order guns from...... sources......... he couldn't just walk up to a dead bandit undected (unless he is like Zero).



Two eights. :)
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#96borochadwicsaysPosted 11/3/2012 9:00:54 AM
I'm sure this has been said; but I'm pretty sure Jack wanted you to find the Vault: that's why he let you find it. He needed you and Lilith to charge the key because Angel obviously couldn't do it. He thought the Warrior would kill you. He succeeded in his plan in every way. The battle between you and the Warrior was planned. Only, Jack didn't think you would win. In reality; you could have just waited for the Warrior to emerge from the Vault and killed him then, because you could easily stop him yourself the whole time. Sort of anti-climactic This would save a lot of time and effort.

The guy you kill? Probably one of his doubles anyways. I have a feeling Jack is much more sinister than he lets on. You think he would directly confront you after you smoked Wilhelm and all his constructors and engineers and Loaders at once? I'd like the think Jack's power is manipulation and intelligence and he would be smarter than that.
#97GameplayZero(Topic Creator)Posted 11/3/2012 9:38:07 AM
Soul_On_Display posted...
My God, TC. There are SO MANY holes in your logic. Honestly, take things with careful analysis next time.

1: Jack DOES create giant robots to attack. Saturn was probably the biggest one. These things actually cost money, and even though Jack and his company are wealthy.

I dont agree with this. Never did Jack say anywhere of the cost of Saturn. And even if they costed lots of money, Jack would, invest in better tech. Thats the part you didn't answer.

4: That is called separation of game and story. Once the original vault hunters became NPC and just part of the narrative, they became limited by more realistic standards.

I realize this but by what standard? You have to make a good reason why they couldn't help you. Making them weaker for no reason is not a valid excuse.

5: This point you listed proved how much you didn't pay attention to the story. Jack didn't "give" her access to all technology on pandora. Her siren power GAVE her that benefit.

You didn't pay attention to what I wrote. Why would Jack not control her better after she helps you NUMEROUS TIMES. He should have payed more attention to angel after that. Lilith is a great example. Why could he do the same thing?


6: Remember how I mentioned the separation of narrative and gameplay? Well, this one follows under than too. Even so, the devs didn't forget about that detail. There is a reason why Gaige doesn't have any damage or critical hit buffs within her perk trees (other than anarchy). That reason is because she isn't experienced with guns in the first place. Also, she is a rogue type of girl who is into extreme engineering and by the looks of it, all things punk. It wouldn't surprise me if she also had personal experience with guns as a hobby in her past life.

Could be.

7: Roland was shot right in the heart. That could be why Roland can't be revived. Lilith wasn't hit with a fatal wound. She was just exhausted from Eridium use. Like I said, pay attention.

Roland was shot everwhere in BL1.


9: She not only has booby traps everywhere (including the one used to trap flesh stick at the entrance) but she's a psychopathic bomb expert. It would make more than enough sense that bandits avoid her due to fear alone.

Makes sense

10: Claptrap by all means was always a hilarious but extremely pathetic character that in normal instances, would pose no threat. When banded together with the protagonists, people make use of his abilities and even give him invisibility, but otherwise, it is very possible that Jack simply underestimated Claptrap. I know I would have given the evidence of his usefulness before the story events.


Good analysis

11: This is probably the biggest piece of evidence that proves you didn't pay almost any attention to the story. Lilith's power is called "phase-walk."

This is the biggest piece of evidence you DIDNT READ WHAT I WROTE. How does lilith transport a whole city, with multiple people on it, and ACCIDENTALLY teleport 1 person away? Whoops? Yeah right.

Understand now?


You answered like 3 questions good. Dont act like I didn't pay attention to the story. And I answered your answers in this quote.
#98GameplayZero(Topic Creator)Posted 11/3/2012 9:44:24 AM
Sorry Soul_On_Display. What you said about number 5) was right. I mixed that up with number 2.
#99GameplayZero(Topic Creator)Posted 11/3/2012 9:47:27 AM
TheHunger82 posted...
GameplayZero posted...

8) The obvious New U Station. Jack dies and thats it? He freakin controls the New U Station. I understand this only a game mechanic not used in the story, but why not explain that. I honestly still think Jack is alive.

8) Marcus. So he gets the guns from dead adventurers. I'd like to see this. He would be killed in an instant. While he might order guns from...... sources......... he couldn't just walk up to a dead bandit undected (unless he is like Zero).



Two eights. :)


Good eye. You discovered the hole in my post. Extra cookies for you.
#100Soul_On_DisplayPosted 11/3/2012 10:55:58 AM(edited)
I dont agree with this. Never did Jack say anywhere of the cost of Saturn. And even if they costed lots of money, Jack would, invest in better tech. Thats the part you didn't answer.

Since Saturn was a part of the game that initially had somewhat of a background story, there is information you can look up about him. However, the developers stripped him of his story (and original name) and simply didn't want to let all that programming go to waste, so they threw him in Fyrestone. In his original description, it states how he is so expensive that Hyperion could only afford to have one at any given moment. It's on the wiki which was given by a developer source. So in that case, he couldn't simply "invest in better tech."

I realize this but by what standard? You have to make a good reason why they couldn't help you. Making them weaker for no reason is not a valid excuse.

Roland was shot everywhere in BL1, yes but he wasn't an NPC then. He wasn't limited by narrative rules. Just about every game has an obvious line between both rules, and it is easily broken quite a bit. Just because Roland was shot multiple times when you used him or during any other case doesn't mean that, that bridge of reality and gameplay needs to be carefully explained. This is, after all, a game that emphasizes its gameplay over narrative. (but then do a pretty good job with both) Explaining the reasoning from the gameplay to narrative effect would have been irrelevant.

This is the biggest piece of evidence you DIDNT READ WHAT I WROTE. How does lilith transport a whole city, with multiple people on it, and ACCIDENTALLY teleport 1 person away? Whoops? Yeah right.

Why couldn't it have been just the vault hunter? In her struggle to phase every free-moving object in the city, it is extremely possible that a good amount of things were lost from her control. A lot of less significant things were probably lost, like common house-hold things and whatnot, but such things don't need to be explained in the narrative. Her biggest blunder was obviously losing the vault hunter, or maybe other people too, who knows? It's not like the city was organized enough to know if someone was missing other than a crucial character involved with saving everyone. This is one of those moments where the basic lack of detail/explanation means that we could safely hold the benefit of the doubt. We can't prove the writers right or wrong since we don't know what fully happened from every NPC perspective. The vault-hunter wasn't there to see if people or objects had in fact been lost during the phase walk. It could have also been that the new four set of vault hunters might have some sort of connection to the Eridium mythology and thus, can't be properly effected by a siren's powers. Again, that benefit of doubt. Also, even if it is just a cliched coincidence that only the vault hunter got transported, who cares, really?

You answered like 3 questions good. Dont act like I didn't pay attention to the story. And I answered your answers in this quote.

Well* I answered 3 questions well*. There's no point in you getting mad at the people posting. You waltz in and claim there are flaws in the story, flaws that were mostly your mistakes to begin with. Have you worded your entire post in a "this is a list of things I don't entirely understand, so let's discuss" theme, you wouldn't have to face peoples' attitude.
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