Serious question for people pro-bee nerf

#51kiwimyweeweePosted 11/14/2012 3:35:08 PM(edited)
Wandyman posted...
kiwimyweewee posted...
Wandyman posted...
Gearbox made The Bee exactly how they wanted it. Don't you think they understood how it would work? It's all the whiners that ruined it for everyone.


You are foolish to believe it could not have been an oversight in the game. People complain about millions of things and go unnerfed or fixed. Many things get patched in co-op games to create balance. This happens to be one of them.


So they sit down and create weapons, they give the Legendary rare Bee a draw back of low capacity, high amp damage/recharge and no drain. It only works when the shield is fully charged, so you can't just run/gun and have infinite amp damage. Being so low, the Bee is pretty much one shot on 2.5. You'd have to be an idiot or ignorant to think they didn't realize what they created. When fanboys cry and whine and sob, they have to do something about it so they don't lose that money. It's all about money. Complain enough, you'll get your way. Now the people that are pro-nerf set up a chain reaction for other over powered combo's. People will regret whining when more goes down.


Do you know how much stuff developers create that is broken or doesn't work as intended in video games? Is this the first video game you have played or something?

I would imagine bee pro nerfers are the minority. You don't cater to the minority if you want to make money.
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They're not going to say no because of the implication.
#52PensatoPosted 11/14/2012 3:35:54 PM
kiwimyweewee posted...
With how this sequel is going I really think they are clueless. If nobody cried I think the same result would have happened. People cry about a lot of things and they don't get nerfed/buffed or removed a lot.


I see the point your making. But, Wandyman is dead on when he says the Bee was already balanced stat wise. There was no need to nerf that. They just needed to change how it worked with the CC and Baby Maker.

The stat change was almost exactly what the crybabies were crying that need to be changed. In particular, it's in line with what the crybabies on Gearbox's forums said needed to be changed. There was nothing wrong with the old Bee's stats.

As for other crying, most of it is about core mechanics which is a lot harder to change than a simple change to one item. I mean I could have coded that in a day. Drop rate changes, backpack/bank slot increase, and so on takes a lot more testing. A lot more can go wrong and they have to do it while staying within Sony's and Microsoft's requirements.

I do agree that Gearbox doesn't fully understand their game, or at least...what made BL1 so fun and addicting.
#53kiwimyweeweePosted 11/14/2012 3:42:49 PM
Pensato posted...
kiwimyweewee posted...
With how this sequel is going I really think they are clueless. If nobody cried I think the same result would have happened. People cry about a lot of things and they don't get nerfed/buffed or removed a lot.


I see the point your making. But, Wandyman is dead on when he says the Bee was already balanced stat wise. There was no need to nerf that. They just needed to change how it worked with the CC and Baby Maker.

The stat change was almost exactly what the crybabies were crying that need to be changed. In particular, it's in line with what the crybabies on Gearbox's forums said needed to be changed. There was nothing wrong with the old Bee's stats.

As for other crying, most of it is about core mechanics which is a lot harder to change than a simple change to one item. I mean I could have coded that in a day. Drop rate changes, backpack/bank slot increase, and so on takes a lot more testing. A lot more can go wrong and they have to do it while staying within Sony's and Microsoft's requirements.

I do agree that Gearbox doesn't fully understand their game, or at least...what made BL1 so fun and addicting.


He's not right about being one shot. I will say I don't know why amp, recharge delay, and capacity were changed. Maybe to make you a true glass cannon but shouldn't have removed amp then.

I really don't think they have a clue. It would also be stupid to cater to the minority.

How about both maybe?
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They're not going to say no because of the implication.
#54WandymanPosted 11/14/2012 3:54:37 PM
kiwimyweewee posted...
Wandyman posted...
kiwimyweewee posted...
Wandyman posted...
Gearbox made The Bee exactly how they wanted it. Don't you think they understood how it would work? It's all the whiners that ruined it for everyone.


You are foolish to believe it could not have been an oversight in the game. People complain about millions of things and go unnerfed or fixed. Many things get patched in co-op games to create balance. This happens to be one of them.


So they sit down and create weapons, they give the Legendary rare Bee a draw back of low capacity, high amp damage/recharge and no drain. It only works when the shield is fully charged, so you can't just run/gun and have infinite amp damage. Being so low, the Bee is pretty much one shot on 2.5. You'd have to be an idiot or ignorant to think they didn't realize what they created. When fanboys cry and whine and sob, they have to do something about it so they don't lose that money. It's all about money. Complain enough, you'll get your way. Now the people that are pro-nerf set up a chain reaction for other over powered combo's. People will regret whining when more goes down.


Do you know how much stuff developers create that is broken or doesn't work as intended in video games? Is this the first video game you have played or something?

I would imagine bee pro nerfers are the minority. You don't cater to the minority if you want to make money.


This is the first video game I've ever played. My parents and I recently moved from under a rock and this addiction is ruling my life!!

On a serious note, can you let me know what they intended when they made the Bee? The Bee isn't broken, it's working exactly the way it was designed. It was made to be a powerful shield that could deal damage in almost a "last ditch effort" type of situation. Like I said, in 2.5 the Bee can be one shot. Then your life starts to drain but they gave you a superior recharge rate so that when you're on the cusp of death you can try to fire one last mega shot to save your life. THE ONLY reason it was nerfed is because of people crying about it being OP'd when those selfish people never even took the time to think they aren't the only ones in the world and that maybe other people who play offline really enjoy it.
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GT: Buddhasmash83
#55WandymanPosted 11/14/2012 4:03:48 PM
Pensato posted...
kiwimyweewee posted...
With how this sequel is going I really think they are clueless. If nobody cried I think the same result would have happened. People cry about a lot of things and they don't get nerfed/buffed or removed a lot.


I see the point your making. But, Wandyman is dead on when he says the Bee was already balanced stat wise. There was no need to nerf that. They just needed to change how it worked with the CC and Baby Maker.

The stat change was almost exactly what the crybabies were crying that need to be changed. In particular, it's in line with what the crybabies on Gearbox's forums said needed to be changed. There was nothing wrong with the old Bee's stats.

As for other crying, most of it is about core mechanics which is a lot harder to change than a simple change to one item. I mean I could have coded that in a day. Drop rate changes, backpack/bank slot increase, and so on takes a lot more testing. A lot more can go wrong and they have to do it while staying within Sony's and Microsoft's requirements.

I do agree that Gearbox doesn't fully understand their game, or at least...what made BL1 so fun and addicting.


Thank you.

It's easy to see how they designed the Bee. You can see it's strong points and it's flaws.

Strong: High Amp Damage...No drain...Superior recharge..No delay

Weakness: Low capacity shield

When using the Bee, you took the good with the bad. When you're in a serious situation (on your way to the Bunker for example) you're going to have to take cover and be selective with your shots using the Bee or you're EASILY going to get taken out.

And to be honest with you all, whenever I've played with my buddy lately I've asked him to run without the Bee. I use the Black Hole or Neo. Why did I ask him that? Because it does deal a ton of damage and sometimes I just want to have a struggle. However, that's my decision to make when I play. Sometimes it's fun to just one shot enemies while other times I enjoy the challenge. That isn't up to a bunch of cry babies to dictate.
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GT: Buddhasmash83
#56BcowmanPosted 11/14/2012 4:07:06 PM
Hrrrrm.

Gearbox, or random guy on the internet with an attitude issue.

Which do I trust...
#57kiwimyweeweePosted 11/14/2012 4:12:11 PM
Terra slapping you directly in the face doesn't even one shot you with the bee if that's your argument. Also at the end of the day gearbox calls the shots not the whiners. I don't believe they gave into them and oversighted it. You believe the opposite.

I'm not going to claim I am right but say it's a possibility. Just like I know that whiners may have got their way but I believe they didn't.
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They're not going to say no because of the implication.
#58kiwimyweeweePosted 11/14/2012 4:15:33 PM
Also characters have delay boosts and capacity increases which made the bee a viable shield as well. It wasn't hard to make the bee a somewhat decent capacity or recharge delay shield.
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They're not going to say no because of the implication.
#59PensatoPosted 11/14/2012 4:44:01 PM(edited)
Bcowman posted...
Hrrrrm.

Gearbox, or random guy on the internet with an attitude issue.

Which do I trust...


Gonna go with the random guy on the internet with an attitude issue. Serously, those of us not for the nerf have presented more intelligent arguments than anything Gearbox has.

Gearbox has yet to give any kind of intelligible explanation on why they nerfed the Bee the way they did. I mean look at what Pitchford said, it's so full of derp I'm amazed the guy knows how to get out of bed in the morning little alone run a company.

Kiwimyweewee had done a better job defending and representing Gearbox than their own President, and he's not 100% on their side.
#60kiwimyweeweePosted 11/14/2012 5:02:14 PM
It's kinda sad when they just nerf things without an explanation to consumers. Well at least widely controversial ones that could go either way like this one. Some are just common sense. This one was on the fence for sure.

Tediores and shotty damage makes some sense. Everything else maybe but if lower capacity and recharge up amp damage then. Turn it to true glass cannon not kinda glass cannon.

It would make sense if it was amp shield that work like a roid but a long recharge delay like the love thumper. Then you are truly a glass cannon.

They just half assed this nerf to where it only changes the guns you use and just made it weaker. That's it.

I see why they might have done it but how is just ridiculous.
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They're not going to say no because of the implication.