Serious question for people pro-bee nerf

#61PanopictonguyPosted 11/14/2012 6:16:22 PM
Pensato posted...
Bcowman posted...
Hrrrrm.

Gearbox, or random guy on the internet with an attitude issue.

Which do I trust...


Gonna go with the random guy on the internet with an attitude issue. Serously, those of us not for the nerf have presented more intelligent arguments than anything Gearbox has.

Gearbox has yet to give any kind of intelligible explanation on why they nerfed the Bee the way they did. I mean look at what Pitchford said, it's so full of derp I'm amazed the guy knows how to get out of bed in the morning little alone run a company.

Kiwimyweewee had done a better job defending and representing Gearbox than their own President, and he's not 100% on their side.


DuvalMagic .@Fluffy_Kevin_ with bee, no other viable shields. So, design fixed a single, broken OP weap and some act like its a crime. #crazy


DuvalMagic @tsmallon thanks for being respectful. We are committed to creating entertainment. Evidence was that bee reduced fun and engagement.


If you're looking for an objective argument there is none. They are the creators if they feel this way based on how the fanbase reacts that is enough.
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Is cheating online in a cooperative game appropriate - Y=9 N =8
#62zombiecyborgPosted 11/14/2012 6:17:33 PM
Pensato posted...
Bcowman posted...
Hrrrrm.

Gearbox, or random guy on the internet with an attitude issue.

Which do I trust...


Gonna go with the random guy on the internet with an attitude issue. Serously, those of us not for the nerf have presented more intelligent arguments than anything Gearbox has.

Gearbox has yet to give any kind of intelligible explanation on why they nerfed the Bee the way they did. I mean look at what Pitchford said, it's so full of derp I'm amazed the guy knows how to get out of bed in the morning little alone run a company.

Kiwimyweewee had done a better job defending and representing Gearbox than their own President, and he's not 100% on their side.


Just because they didn't publicize their reasoning doesn't mean that it doesn't exist - and if you're waiting for it, you'll probably be disappointed. I can almost completely guarantee you that they didn't nerf it just because a vocal minority was whining about it, unless said vocal minority were spending thousands and thousands of dollars and Gearbox needed to keep their business.

Not saying it was a good decision - or a bad one. Just that unless it comes from their mouths directly, anything on the internet is pure speculation. I hope the choice was motivated by data and statistics they have on their end, but I suppose there's a chance it was completely arbitrary.

But it probably wasn't. :P
#63kiwimyweeweePosted 11/14/2012 6:51:20 PM
Panopictonguy posted...
Pensato posted...
Bcowman posted...
Hrrrrm.

Gearbox, or random guy on the internet with an attitude issue.

Which do I trust...


Gonna go with the random guy on the internet with an attitude issue. Serously, those of us not for the nerf have presented more intelligent arguments than anything Gearbox has.

Gearbox has yet to give any kind of intelligible explanation on why they nerfed the Bee the way they did. I mean look at what Pitchford said, it's so full of derp I'm amazed the guy knows how to get out of bed in the morning little alone run a company.

Kiwimyweewee had done a better job defending and representing Gearbox than their own President, and he's not 100% on their side.


DuvalMagic .@Fluffy_Kevin_ with bee, no other viable shields. So, design fixed a single, broken OP weap and some act like its a crime. #crazy


DuvalMagic @tsmallon thanks for being respectful. We are committed to creating entertainment. Evidence was that bee reduced fun and engagement.


If you're looking for an objective argument there is none. They are the creators if they feel this way based on how the fanbase reacts that is enough.


Jesus christ randy.

*facepalm*
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They're not going to say no because of the implication.
#64PensatoPosted 11/14/2012 7:22:16 PM
zombiecyborg posted...
Pensato posted...
Bcowman posted...
Hrrrrm.

Gearbox, or random guy on the internet with an attitude issue.

Which do I trust...


Gonna go with the random guy on the internet with an attitude issue. Serously, those of us not for the nerf have presented more intelligent arguments than anything Gearbox has.

Gearbox has yet to give any kind of intelligible explanation on why they nerfed the Bee the way they did. I mean look at what Pitchford said, it's so full of derp I'm amazed the guy knows how to get out of bed in the morning little alone run a company.

Kiwimyweewee had done a better job defending and representing Gearbox than their own President, and he's not 100% on their side.


Just because they didn't publicize their reasoning doesn't mean that it doesn't exist - and if you're waiting for it, you'll probably be disappointed. I can almost completely guarantee you that they didn't nerf it just because a vocal minority was whining about it, unless said vocal minority were spending thousands and thousands of dollars and Gearbox needed to keep their business.

Not saying it was a good decision - or a bad one. Just that unless it comes from their mouths directly, anything on the internet is pure speculation. I hope the choice was motivated by data and statistics they have on their end, but I suppose there's a chance it was completely arbitrary.

But it probably wasn't. :P


Well what I'm mostly saying is this. Pitchford made a statement. He should of said something along the lines of, hey guys we know you're upset but you knew it was coming and this is why we did what we did.

Instead, he ran his mouth like a brainless tool. It's something you'd expect from a fourteen year old not a man running a million dollar company. It's the reason people are starting to dislike him. If I was a investor/share holder in Gearbox I'd be asking him to knock of the tweeting or step down.

That aside, if the company can't justify the nerf better than the fans can justify why it shouldn't have been nerfed than it shows a lot of incompetence on Gearbox's part.

As for not nerfing it based on the minority. Then why did they nerf the very things they were crying about instead of just the two things that were broken? Why didn't they have it balanced the way they wanted it before release? Why didn't they say anything about the Bee the first few weeks we already knew it was broken with the CC. Why did they say nothing about the Bee being broken with the Baby Maker until after the crying about it? Why did they wait till the crybaby threads started to say anything?

They've been under fire for not listening to the fans. Now they can say they listened. It all points to that. I've worked as a developer for a long time. I can see when something was an oversight (how the Bee worked with the CC and Baby Maker) verses something that was already adjusted for balance (Bees stats).

You'd also be surprised how many completely arbitrary decisions for a game are made at big companies. No matter how good our design document is, there are those above us who have final say. Sometimes, they don't know wtf they're talking about. It's why top developers leave and form their own companies.
#65kiwimyweeweePosted 11/14/2012 8:04:17 PM(edited)
Yeah I honestly tried to give gearbox the benefit of the doubt for justification of the bee nerf but randy really makes it impossible not that it was fair or not in the first place I just though there was a proper reason.

There are some things you listen to fans for and some you don't. Fun is subjective and you should treat nerfing/buffing things with an objective stance. You should never redo anything for fans personal wants but for your own creative reasons or idea for what you want as a person or company.

Not hurr durr some not having fun I am the president of gearbox.
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They're not going to say no because of the implication.
#66RitalinfiendPosted 11/14/2012 8:01:45 PM
I'm glad they are balancing the game. Raid bosses should be for raids. They were not meant for soloing. The bee made everything trivial except the ridiculous hyperious. Haven't fought gee yet so I can't speak for that. They should nerf hyperious a bit too though at the same time since the bee as it is now seems to be the only way to take him out at all.
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Candy: Tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy.
#67Mewtwo_soulPosted 11/14/2012 8:13:19 PM
Ritalinfiend posted...
I'm glad they are balancing the game. Raid bosses should be for raids. They were not meant for soloing. The bee made everything trivial except the ridiculous hyperious. Haven't fought gee yet so I can't speak for that. They should nerf hyperious a bit too though at the same time since the bee as it is now seems to be the only way to take him out at all.


In other words: Let's give people a reason to mod the game, since not everyone has a full fledged team waiting to beat the hell out of the raid bosses.

Dumb ass decision all the way.
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"You can build a thousand bridges, and never be known as a bridge builder. But **** one goat, and you'll forever be known as the man who ***** goats"
#68RitalinfiendPosted 11/14/2012 9:05:41 PM
Mewtwo_soul posted...
Ritalinfiend posted...
I'm glad they are balancing the game. Raid bosses should be for raids. They were not meant for soloing. The bee made everything trivial except the ridiculous hyperious. Haven't fought gee yet so I can't speak for that. They should nerf hyperious a bit too though at the same time since the bee as it is now seems to be the only way to take him out at all.


In other words: Let's give people a reason to mod the game, since not everyone has a full fledged team waiting to beat the hell out of the raid bosses.

Dumb ass decision all the way.


Check out YouTube. There are people that have soloed raid bosses without the Bee. Very time consuming, very difficult, but possible. As it should be to solo a raid boss which is specifically designed for raids, not solo. Terramorphous is very possible to solo without a Bee, I've done it a couple of times. That leaves 2 optional raid bosses you might not be able to solo. That's no reason for a game breaking item to exist in it's current state. There is still 99% of of the game that needs to be balanced and that you can still enjoy without this overpowered item.
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Candy: Tastes like chicken, if chicken was a candy.
#69KURockChalk(Topic Creator)Posted 11/14/2012 9:09:56 PM
Just make the bee shield either
A. Offline only or
B. Only used in private game
#70PanopictonguyPosted 11/14/2012 9:48:26 PM
kiwimyweewee posted...
Yeah I honestly tried to give gearbox the benefit of the doubt for justification of the bee nerf but randy really makes it impossible not that it was fair or not in the first place I just though there was a proper reason.

There are some things you listen to fans for and some you don't. Fun is subjective and you should treat nerfing/buffing things with an objective stance. You should never redo anything for fans personal wants but for your own creative reasons or idea for what you want as a person or company.

Not hurr durr some not having fun I am the president of gearbox.


Ruining Multi-player for normal players isn't objective enough?
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Is cheating online in a cooperative game appropriate - Y=9 N =8