My review of the Torgue DLC (spoilers)

#11VegetallPosted 11/29/2012 11:32:40 AM
rockyoumonkeys posted...
Vegetall posted...
there is basically 1 arena type mission that is mandatory, but all of the boss battles are arena TYPE battles, its not bad like moxxi was at all, not even close... but if you want the achievement then you have to do the arena battle 3 times...


don't care about achievements. doesn't sound like this DLC is for me.

wish i'd known before getting the season pass, but shame on me for not expecting an arena DLC since the first game had one.



its still a very fun DLC, short, and funny the dialoage like mentioned above is the best part... Mister Torgue is halaroius, i will just go to the vending machines for the comments he makes when you leave them...

all the missions are fairly easy, the bosses CAN be challenging if your not abusing the Bee....and the rewards for some of the side missions are really good, even thought there blues....
#12Megagamer1(Topic Creator)Posted 11/29/2012 11:56:21 AM
puppy posted...
What makes CoC better than CS to me is the dialogue. I can't wait to repeat the missions with my buddy to listen to the dialogue again. It's like one huge hilarious wrestling intro.

CS had the raid bosses and the seraph loot, but that's for grinders.


See, I generally thought CS had better dialogue. CoC's was gimmicky, albeit amusing.
---
eh
#13JimiMorrison187Posted 11/29/2012 12:28:56 PM(edited)
From: rockyoumonkeys | #009
Vegetall posted...
there is basically 1 arena type mission that is mandatory, but all of the boss battles are arena TYPE battles, its not bad like moxxi was at all, not even close... but if you want the achievement then you have to do the arena battle 3 times...


don't care about achievements. doesn't sound like this DLC is for me.

wish i'd known before getting the season pass, but shame on me for not expecting an arena DLC since the first game had one.


Don't worry about arenas. Torgue's doesn't really have them and they aren't hard if you have to do one. Right at the start you do 1, but it is short. All the rest are jsut fighting bosses in the arena, but it isn't actually an arena battle like the Fink's, Annex, etc. I HATE arenas too,but the Torgue DLC didn't have enough of it that I could complain about arenas. You won't be annoyed by it trust me. You think it will be arenas and a ton of rounds, but there really aren't any.
---
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v643/ripvanwallace/SCAN001.jpg
#14drake_skullPosted 11/29/2012 12:40:43 PM
Megagamer1 posted...
puppy posted...
What makes CoC better than CS to me is the dialogue. I can't wait to repeat the missions with my buddy to listen to the dialogue again. It's like one huge hilarious wrestling intro.

CS had the raid bosses and the seraph loot, but that's for grinders.


See, I generally thought CS had better dialogue. CoC's was gimmicky, albeit amusing.


CS dialog was boring. CS quests were basically: Go down this long somewhat narrow path loaded with hundreds of enemies and fetch this item for me. The dialog was boring and monotone, and Scarlet herself seemed like a "dumb Blonde" version of Tanis(which did not work, and I love how Tanis was done). Introducing "new" disposable characters(which we will never see again most likely) doesnt work that well in series like this. Also the story you play through on the Torgue DLC just seemed more interesting to follow. I guess it didnt help that the first character you meet in CS was very very annoying. And then we got that other guy who was obsessed with Scarlet that managed to be even more annoying. Having multiple obsessive characters like that really took away any good chance of dialog, especially because basically all the first one did is drone on about how he is lonely and no one was dying of dehydration...Very very annoying.
---
"If your going to ask someone to save the world, make sure they like it the way it is"
http://www.youtube.com/user/Drakeskull23
#15Megagamer1(Topic Creator)Posted 11/29/2012 2:13:07 PM
drake_skull posted...


CS dialog was boring. CS quests were basically: Go down this long somewhat narrow path loaded with hundreds of enemies and fetch this item for me. The dialog was boring and monotone, and Scarlet herself seemed like a "dumb Blonde" version of Tanis(which did not work, and I love how Tanis was done). Introducing "new" disposable characters(which we will never see again most likely) doesnt work that well in series like this. Also the story you play through on the Torgue DLC just seemed more interesting to follow. I guess it didnt help that the first character you meet in CS was very very annoying. And then we got that other guy who was obsessed with Scarlet that managed to be even more annoying. Having multiple obsessive characters like that really took away any good chance of dialog, especially because basically all the first one did is drone on about how he is lonely and no one was dying of dehydration...Very very annoying.


A few things you need to realize: first, there are no "disposable characters" at this point. The Borderlands series is, by all means, still in its infancy. Any character or concept that appears in one form of the game (be it vanilla or DLC) has the opportunity to appear at a later time. Borderlands has a history of recycling its cast, both from its primary games and DLC: most of the cast from BL 1 appears in BL 2 and many are major secondary characters, Moxxi went from being DLC exclusive to an iconic staple, Tiny Tina easily could have been relegated to a one-off, etc. Point being, there's no inherent fault to adding new characters to the roster.

Second: I can understand feeling that the CS cast was mostly archetypical and one-note in many regards. However, in a series like Borderlands, where the majority of the characters are superficial, one should acknowledge that it's not a factor of "depth" or "cleverness" that is being challenged. Essentially, you either enjoy the gimmick or you don't.

Which brings me to Mr. Torgue: this character is just as gimmicky and singular as (mostly) any other BL character. And if we're going to criticize characters on their "obsessions," we cannot look past one who literally includes the word "EXPLOSIONS" in every statement. I get that the constant assault of loud, ridiculous dialogue is amusing on a basic level. I'm all for it, actually, considering what BL is. But let's not pretend as though there's any substance behind it.
---
eh
#16drake_skullPosted 11/29/2012 2:44:49 PM
Megagamer1 posted...


A few things you need to realize: first, there are no "disposable characters" at this point. The Borderlands series is, by all means, still in its infancy. Any character or concept that appears in one form of the game (be it vanilla or DLC) has the opportunity to appear at a later time. Borderlands has a history of recycling its cast, both from its primary games and DLC: most of the cast from BL 1 appears in BL 2 and many are major secondary characters, Moxxi went from being DLC exclusive to an iconic staple, Tiny Tina easily could have been relegated to a one-off, etc. Point being, there's no inherent fault to adding new characters to the roster.

Second: I can understand feeling that the CS cast was mostly archetypical and one-note in many regards. However, in a series like Borderlands, where the majority of the characters are superficial, one should acknowledge that it's not a factor of "depth" or "cleverness" that is being challenged. Essentially, you either enjoy the gimmick or you don't.

Which brings me to Mr. Torgue: this character is just as gimmicky and singular as (mostly) any other BL character. And if we're going to criticize characters on their "obsessions," we cannot look past one who literally includes the word "EXPLOSIONS" in every statement. I get that the constant assault of loud, ridiculous dialogue is amusing on a basic level. I'm all for it, actually, considering what BL is. But let's not pretend as though there's any substance behind it.


Dr Ned was disposable. Scarlet doesn't have the charisma of Moxxi. Both Ned and Scarlet were in the first DLC of the respective games. Neither added to the actual story of BL, both seemed to be just side stories that didnt really matter. Both were introduced in the same fashion(Marcus telling a story to a child, though the child started the story on this one and Marcus took over when the child performed poorly). The "obsessed type" characters in CS seemed to only be there to waste your time. The first one sent you to a vehicle he knew was broken so he could make you run around and talk to his "friends" who were nothing more than a dead body with a recoding of his voice. the second Obsessed character in CS was just not needed at all. He wasted your time collecting those tapes then wasted your time more(and I am guessing the compass piece was broken prior to you shooting the lock off) on the next part of his quests. The explosion was anticlimactic as it was so obvious. The whole storyline of CS was drawn for you in crayon while at least they threw some twists into COC. Some say the ending fight was bad but it was perfect for the way it was set up(talking after rex). Mr Torgue was there pretty much to break up the journey of COC and COC actually added a bit to the story of Borderlands. Face it, though not nearly as fun as Dr Ned CS was just a side story that doesnt matter in the long run. The characters are disposable just like the Dr Ned characters were. Even the bad guys in CS that had dialog managed to be boring.
---
"If your going to ask someone to save the world, make sure they like it the way it is"
http://www.youtube.com/user/Drakeskull23
#17Megagamer1(Topic Creator)Posted 11/29/2012 4:14:25 PM
drake_skull posted...


Dr Ned was disposable. Scarlet doesn't have the charisma of Moxxi. Both Ned and Scarlet were in the first DLC of the respective games. Neither added to the actual story of BL, both seemed to be just side stories that didnt really matter. Both were introduced in the same fashion(Marcus telling a story to a child, though the child started the story on this one and Marcus took over when the child performed poorly). The "obsessed type" characters in CS seemed to only be there to waste your time. The first one sent you to a vehicle he knew was broken so he could make you run around and talk to his "friends" who were nothing more than a dead body with a recoding of his voice. the second Obsessed character in CS was just not needed at all. He wasted your time collecting those tapes then wasted your time more(and I am guessing the compass piece was broken prior to you shooting the lock off) on the next part of his quests. The explosion was anticlimactic as it was so obvious. The whole storyline of CS was drawn for you in crayon while at least they threw some twists into COC. Some say the ending fight was bad but it was perfect for the way it was set up(talking after rex). Mr Torgue was there pretty much to break up the journey of COC and COC actually added a bit to the story of Borderlands. Face it, though not nearly as fun as Dr Ned CS was just a side story that doesnt matter in the long run. The characters are disposable just like the Dr Ned characters were. Even the bad guys in CS that had dialog managed to be boring.


You keep using that word. I don't think you know what it means.

:/

Dr. Ned is not, by any means, a throwaway character. Yes, Dr. Ned and Dr. Zed are technically different people in the Borderlands universe. That doesn't change the fact that Ned is a parody of Zed and is essentially the same entity. That Ned has only appeared once is irrelevant, as Zed (a.k.a. the "mad doctor" character) is still featured.

I get that you didn't enjoy the characters of CS. That's fine, really. But you're fooling yourself if you believe that the fundamental story-telling and character development was any more substantial in CoC than CS. Again, I suggest that you just like one gimmick over another.
---
eh
#18drake_skullPosted 11/29/2012 5:00:34 PM(edited)
Zed is not Ned. Making Ned pretty much a reskinned Zed was done as a joke that was even pointed out to the player, reinforcing that it was done for humor purposes. I think you need a dictionary because the first NPC you meet in CS becomes your obsessed fan, and Herbert is Obsessed with Scarlet. Both are simply there to waste your time with useless quests that dont really have any interest nor do they do anything for the paper thin story attached to CS...basically the same quest...Oh it looks like the thing I have for you is broken...Go get (item[s]) so I can fix it. It was a bad repeat of quests so close to each other. If you were expecting Mr Torgue to be something other than what he was you apparently never heard the Torgue commercials that sometimes came on the radios in game. Scarlet herself was a very generic "pretend to be your friend then betray you when you do her dirty work" character. A strong lack of personality as well, pretty flat monotone speeches made listening to her drone on boring and I dont think I can say this enough the whole DLC questline was "Go here, collect this thing, repeat till you got to the end where you had a boss that failed at providing a real challenge, instead relying on a Craw gimmick to draw the fight out(much like the rest of the quests in the DLC seemed to use lame gimmicks to draw them out longer than they needed to be. Yes I know the whole Door Locked thing in COC was a gimmick but it actually added something to the story of the DLC, reinforcing that Piston was in fact a Coward.

In simple terms the CS characters felt 1 dimensional because each had 1 and only 1 thing they talked about. Scarlet was the compass, the fan was people dying of thirst(pretending they weren't) and Herbert was Scarlet.

COC characters were a bit more dynamic, Mr Torgue is an eccentric President of a corporation who not only is very intense but has a healthy respect for women but also is a bit more intelligent than he shows with his manner of speech(Icarus symbolism is evidence of that), Moxxi in the DLC is helping you but also working her own angle to get another arena going, Tina is Tina, the training mission was humorous, a nice distraction and left a good joke open for later between Moxxi and Tina. Piston was well designed, he appeared to be a super bad fighter but in the end the reason he was so easy is because he truly was the biggest coward on Pandora, he had no real fighting skills, he relied on tricks and machines to fight.

So there you go. Ned was Zed as a joke, nothing more and the weak attempts at humor were poorly executed in CS.
---
"If your going to ask someone to save the world, make sure they like it the way it is"
http://www.youtube.com/user/Drakeskull23