Gearbox: Masters of Patching

#31PensatoPosted 2/5/2013 5:51:47 PM
Tsuruke posted...
Pensato posted...
Tsuruke posted...
Maybe I did, maybe I didn't we can never know since they will not confirm the amount

I don't think you understand how big a number billions is.
You're also ignoring the fact that you don't have to write as much code for a game developed on a game engine as you do for a game that is developed on a framework. BL2 was developed on an engine.

I have not ignored anything as I know how engines work. I addressed the whole "amount" issue prior to that post you just quoted yet you are stuck on that to realized I have made my point. FYI engines have lines of code in it to, that can also cause conflicting issues with patches.

If you would so kindly, go back and re-read my posts.

TL;DR:

Tsuruke posted...
Maybe I should have said anywhere from Thousands to Millions or a Billion lines of code.

Tsuruke posted...
However, my point was it gets more difficult to create a patch in a timely manner with different variables such as improper user generated reports (lack of details), error codes, cross referencing lines of code with error reports, etc.. and gets more difficult the more lines of code you have written.


You didn't address anything about development in a game engine vs framework. You're just regurgitating simple facts anyone can find on Wiki. All you've said was you've seen some simple programs that have hundreds of lines of code. Which doesn't mean anything. Those programs could be poorly coded with several lines of empty code.

Our argument is about how you exaggerated how many lines of code is most likely in BL2. I don't care about your other points. I have no reason to argue them. I know how complex programs can get. I also know the real issue of releasing a product as bug free as possible is making sure everyone's Methods agree with their Classes and don't counter the Methods others have written.

There's no reason to release a game in the state Gearbox did.

You still haven't proved to me you're a programmer. Write me a simple Method. Till then you're just talk.
#32SahuaginPosted 2/5/2013 6:07:47 PM
From: Pensato | #008
Because only games made by Gearbox have management. All the other countless games and software released without major bugs/glitchs on the level that Borderlands 2 has has 0 management. You're the one that has no credibility because you don't know wtf you're talking about.


where did I say or imply that other companies don't have management? what I said was, if there is a problem with releasing patches and fixing bugs, it's more likely management related than programmer related. programmers can't do anything that management doesn't allow them to do.

But go ahead. Prove me wrong. Write up a Method of code for me to look at or stfu.


I didn't say I was a programmer, although I am.

From: Pensato | #031
You still haven't proved to me you're a programmer. Write me a simple Method. Till then you're just talk.


you want us to prove we're programmers... rofl? I can easily whip up a method, but that doesn't prove that I'm a programmer. Here's some c sharp just for you:


private void ShowAMessage()
{
MessageBox.Show("You Suck");
}

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Atheism is merely a consequence of having intellectual honesty.
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#33TsurukePosted 2/5/2013 6:21:40 PM(edited)
Pensato posted...
Tsuruke posted...
Pensato posted...
Tsuruke posted...
Maybe I did, maybe I didn't we can never know since they will not confirm the amount

I don't think you understand how big a number billions is.
You're also ignoring the fact that you don't have to write as much code for a game developed on a game engine as you do for a game that is developed on a framework. BL2 was developed on an engine.

I have not ignored anything as I know how engines work. I addressed the whole "amount" issue prior to that post you just quoted yet you are stuck on that to realized I have made my point. FYI engines have lines of code in it to, that can also cause conflicting issues with patches.

If you would so kindly, go back and re-read my posts.

You didn't address anything about development in a game engine vs framework. You're just regurgitating simple facts anyone can find on Wiki. All you've said was you've seen some simple programs that have hundreds of lines of code. Which doesn't mean anything. Those programs could be poorly coded with several lines of empty code.

Our argument is about how you exaggerated how many lines of code is most likely in BL2. I don't care about your other points. I have no reason to argue them. I know how complex programs can get. I also know the real issue of releasing a product as bug free as possible is making sure everyone's Methods agree with their Classes and don't counter the Methods others have written.

There's no reason to release a game in the state Gearbox did.

You still haven't proved to me you're a programmer. Write me a simple Method. Till then you're just talk.

Prove to you? I have no reason to prove my works to you (A. I said as a hobby and 2 as proprietary contract work -- can't quite release those buddy boy, under contact and all.) but i can easily write up a few lines of code to get you off your high horse, if necessary.
Wiki, HA hardly -- try years of courses. But hey, lets say I did get information from wiki, well then I made money on some useful self taught information if thats the case.
I fail to see how my hobby/side work status is relevant to you trolling about the "amount" of lines of code I used in a sentence. It isn't, however I can see that you aren't a programer that has had the fortunate pleasure of troubleshooting bug and releasing patches, as you would have seen and understood my point of the whole point of the OP -- which you failed to see, hence why it leads me to believe you are just trollin'

I already proven my point and already clearly address the "amount" tangent you are going on -- as well as the timely manner in how they have to work around it.

Don't be mad bro -- just because you were caught suspected of trying to troll by misunderstanding the point while I provided facts and examples to support my argument -- in turn making your argument not sound.

If you want to go on a proving tangent. You prove to me that with all dependencies included, that this game wasn't written with "Billions" (or even Thousands to Millions or a Billion lines of code) and I'll be more than happy to humor you release some of my personal projects written in 4 different programing languages. Prove to me you were trying to troll.
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XBL GT/PSN: Tsuruke.
#34PensatoPosted 2/5/2013 6:34:40 PM(edited)
Sahuagin posted...
where did I say or imply that other companies don't have management? what I said was, if there is a problem with releasing patches and fixing bugs, it's more likely management related than programmer related. programmers can't do anything that management doesn't allow them to do.


I was being sarcastic. My point is that the game is poorly coded. Not who's fault it is for being poorly coded. The sarcasm was for not getting that simple concept. To top it off, you didn't even get what you were saying right. Management isn't the only reason bad code can happen. Even if it was, it doesn't change the fact it's poor code. Also, most mangers on the programming team are programmers.

It's certainly is not a good argument for releasing a game in as bad a state as BL2 is.

I didn't say I was a programmer, although I am.


I didn't say you were or weren't a programmer. I said I didn't think you knew what you're talking about.

you want us to prove we're programmers... rofl? I can easily whip up a method, but that doesn't prove that I'm a programmer. Here's some c sharp just for you:


private void ShowAMessage()
{
MessageBox.Show("You Suck");
}


No. I want Tsuruke to prove he's a programmer. I wanted you to show me you at least know something about programming. After all if you're going to fail to understand simple sarcasm and say the person has now cred, you need to back it up.

At least you know something of code. So you proved me wrong on you not having cred at least.
#35PanopictonguyPosted 2/5/2013 6:40:01 PM
Games that are more buggy than Borderlands 2?

All the elder scrolls games given how they store data.

Dead Island.

The last Remnant.

Too Human.

INfamous had crazy clipping issues.

Dark Souls one area could consistently bring your game to a crawl no matter what shape the disc was in.

Wasn't there a game with a huge controversy because it had a bug fix list leaked before release?
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Oh, you thought they made this game for you? You clearly bought the wrong game.
#36PensatoPosted 2/5/2013 6:46:42 PM
Tsuruke posted...
Prove to you? I have no reason to prove my works to you (A. I said as a hobby and 2 as proprietary contract work -- can't quite release those buddy boy, under contact and all.) but i can easily write up a few lines of code to get you off your high horse, if necessary.
Wiki, HA hardly -- try years of courses. But hey, lets say I did get information from wiki, well then I made money on some useful self taught information if thats the case.
I fail to see how my hobby/side work status is relevant to you trolling about the "amount" of lines of code I used in a sentence. It isn't, however I can see that you aren't a programer that has had the fortunate pleasure of troubleshooting bug and releasing patches, as you would have seen and understood my point of the whole point of the OP -- which you failed to see, hence why it leads me to believe you are just trollin'

I already proven my point and already clearly address the "amount" tangent you are going on -- as well as the timely manner in how they have to work around it.

Don't be mad bro -- just because you were caught suspected of trying to troll by misunderstanding the point while I provided facts and examples to support my argument -- in turn making your argument not sound.

If you want to go on a proving tangent. You prove to me that with all dependencies included, that this game wasn't written with "Billions" (or even Thousands to Millions or a Billion lines of code) and I'll be more than happy to humor you release some of my personal projects written in 4 different programing languages. Prove to me you were trying to troll.


Oh I'm not mad. I just don't think you really know what you're talking about. You haven't proved anything except you know how to read Wiki.

You also state you just do it as a hobby. So you really don't know how things run at a AAA company. I also didn't say you need to release your work to me. I asked you to write a simple method. Something a programmer could have done in five seconds.

I'm not trolling. I told you the whole point is you passing off misinformation to defend a company that released a poorly coded game. You still don't get that simple concept. So not only do you not know what you're talking about, you don't even know what I'm arguing.
#37SahuaginPosted 2/5/2013 6:49:04 PM
From: Pensato | #034
My point is that the game is poorly coded.


there is nothing at all to indicate that "the game is poorly coded", and there are lots of things that indicate that the game is actually very well coded. a few bugs does not make a game "poorly coded". as one of my profs wrote in giant letters in one of my intro classes (like 15 years ago): "ALL REAL SOFTWARE HAS BUGS".
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Note to self: get off PotD so that I can do something PRODUCTIVE!
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#38TsurukePosted 2/5/2013 6:53:12 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#39Choir_of_WolvesPosted 2/5/2013 6:58:00 PM
Tsuruke posted...
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]


Really should have left this one up and let him eat his words.
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all posts in this topic are negated if the poster has not listened to the first six Black Sabbath albums. those who disagree will be modded.
#40PensatoPosted 2/5/2013 6:58:00 PM
Panopictonguy posted...
Games that are more buggy than Borderlands 2?

All the elder scrolls games given how they store data.

Dead Island.

The last Remnant.

Too Human.

INfamous had crazy clipping issues.

Dark Souls one area could consistently bring your game to a crawl no matter what shape the disc was in.

Wasn't there a game with a huge controversy because it had a bug fix list leaked before release?


The elder scrolls are certainly buggy. But I'd say BL2 is more so. The BA, Save, and Graveyard bugs alone are all worse than anything in Skyrim or Morrowind, the only two I've played. This is coming from someone who dislikes the elder scrolls IP as well.

Haven't played Dead Island. So you'll have to say what bugs outshine BL2's bugs.

Same with Last Remnant and Too Human.

Clipping issues are minor though annoying. Still nothing compered to BL2. Same with Dark Souls low frame rate issues (BL2 also has this issue in MP).

The last one is no surprise. A lot of companies have bug fix lists even when the game is ready to ship.

You guys need to note that I didn't say BL2 was the only buggy game ever made. Just one of the most buggy. I'm not asking for bug free games, I know it's not fully possable. I'm saying that BL2 is unacceptable and defending Gearbox over it is derp.