Level Cap increase could "break the game. Sometimes very literally."

#21AngryOldFeralPosted 2/8/2013 1:48:54 PM
kiwimyweewee posted...
^That was an interesting read. Thanks for posting that. Seems like they would actually have to overhaul the whole game to actually raise the cap.

At this point better safe then sorry. There is already enough broken things in this game.

Going to stick with feral and just overhaul the loot system instead. Toss s&s and atlas back in too.

Yes, I know atlas is gone.


Atlas could be released as an entire tier of purple and orange rarity weapons, as after their dissolution as a company the weapons would be extremely hard-to-find.

Ajax's Spear, anyone? :D
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Smoking Ghost / Feral Manx
Proud Outcast of Capcom Unity
#22spfurm01Posted 2/8/2013 1:52:11 PM
I agree with an overhaul to the loot system. Gun variety overall has increased (there's more different kinds of guns), but gun variety between guns of the same class is rather low (legendaries are especially guilty of this, most of the time the legendary part that determines functionality is the barrel, which is often the biggest factor in determining gun behavior). There's also a completely unused second accessory slot on every gun.

What it boils down to is instead of farming for better versions of legendaries, it's just farming for legendaries in general.
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#23spfurm01Posted 2/8/2013 1:52:56 PM
AngryOldFeral posted...
kiwimyweewee posted...
^That was an interesting read. Thanks for posting that. Seems like they would actually have to overhaul the whole game to actually raise the cap.

At this point better safe then sorry. There is already enough broken things in this game.

Going to stick with feral and just overhaul the loot system instead. Toss s&s and atlas back in too.

Yes, I know atlas is gone.


Atlas could be released as an entire tier of purple and orange rarity weapons, as after their dissolution as a company the weapons would be extremely hard-to-find.

Ajax's Spear, anyone? :D


Why stop there when we could have Ajax's Ogre?
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#24tony8669Posted 2/8/2013 2:08:22 PM
SuprSaiyanRockr posted...
There would be no point in that. In fact, it would defeat the purpose of levelling up.


In game design, leveling is referred to as "filling the bar". That IS the "purpose" of leveling up: to level up.

What you're claiming is the purpose is actually a perk. That's why so many people stop playing once they reach a level cap: not because they're angry they can't get any more points, but because they can't continue "filling the bar".

So I'm stating an obvious solution: let people continue "filling the bar" for a few more levels.
#25tony8669Posted 2/8/2013 2:14:56 PM
BTW, I don't buy the "it would break your xbox" claim. That seems asinine.

People have hacked the game and given themselves like 1000 ability points, which I'd imagine is enough to max out all three skill trees... yet their xboxes have not exploded, to my knowledge (perhaps the Illuminati is covering it up).

I think the problem may possibly be that they would then have to address class imbalances, like some abilities might be more overpowered than they intended. But let's face the fact: this game is actually rather easy anyway. I'm not sure if a significant portion of the player based WANTS a huge challenge.

So maybe they should just shrug and give the points and move on. Or, as I mentioned before, give the levels without any more skill points, so you'll just get extra HP and higher damage on the weapons.

If I recall correctly from BL1, there wasnt even significant damage increase on level 51+ weapons.
#26spfurm01Posted 2/8/2013 2:24:10 PM
tony8669 posted...
BTW, I don't buy the "it would break your xbox" claim. That seems asinine.

People have hacked the game and given themselves like 1000 ability points, which I'd imagine is enough to max out all three skill trees... yet their xboxes have not exploded, to my knowledge (perhaps the Illuminati is covering it up).

I think the problem may possibly be that they would then have to address class imbalances, like some abilities might be more overpowered than they intended. But let's face the fact: this game is actually rather easy anyway. I'm not sure if a significant portion of the player based WANTS a huge challenge.

So maybe they should just shrug and give the points and move on. Or, as I mentioned before, give the levels without any more skill points, so you'll just get extra HP and higher damage on the weapons.

If I recall correctly from BL1, there wasnt even significant damage increase on level 51+ weapons.


BL1 weapons scaled linearly. BL2 weapons don't.
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#27AngryOldFeralPosted 2/8/2013 3:06:52 PM
I still think expanding the loot system and gun parts variety would be preferable than more skill points. I don't care if I can't run around with a Sabre Turret with nukes, longbow, gemini with double-barrels. But the feeling of stagnation of knowing how small a variety of guns I can find is saddening.

More stuff to kill for and scavenge would add more replay ability for me, personally.
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Smoking Ghost / Feral Manx
Proud Outcast of Capcom Unity
#28kiwimyweeweePosted 2/8/2013 3:12:47 PM
AngryOldFeral posted...
I still think expanding the loot system and gun parts variety would be preferable than more skill points. I don't care if I can't run around with a Sabre Turret with nukes, longbow, gemini with double-barrels. But the feeling of stagnation of knowing how small a variety of guns I can find is saddening.

More stuff to kill for and scavenge would add more replay ability for me, personally.


Diversity of gear would definitely be a plus. They really need to slap down some more relics and class mods as well. Introduce some new possibilities with said new weapons.
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They're not going to say no because of the implication.
#29Lost_DjinnPosted 2/8/2013 3:30:16 PM
spfurm01 posted...
http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=227999

Somewhat relevant (although his calculation that he provides at the very beginning is a typo, I believe the rate of change should be 1.129795151 instead of 1.29795151, if you read through the calculations it makes more sense and scales to weapons better).

Basically, stats in this game grow exponentially. Guns at level 60 will be dealing nearly 3 times what they do at 50, and it gets even worse as you go beyond that point. Enemies' health grows at a faster rate (it's been calculated to be about 1.15^X) than the player's (calculated to about 1.13^X), likely this difference is meant to be offset by skills. At level 60 enemies will have about 2.8-3 times the health of a player, assuming they have the same base health.

More levels = more disparity between us and enemies, as well as more disparity between guns of different qualities. There's a ~3700 damage difference between the most stripped down versions of Purple and White level 50 bandit pistols. At level 60 this will be even bigger, roughly a 12000 damage difference.

Gear calculations will have to completely change if they want to attempt to keep the game somewhat balanced, because from a numerical perspective, increasing the level cap and leaving things as they are will break the game. Very literally.


A beer on me for excellence Sir ^^
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#30SuprSaiyanRockrPosted 2/8/2013 3:46:48 PM
tony8669 posted...
SuprSaiyanRockr posted...
There would be no point in that. In fact, it would defeat the purpose of levelling up.


In game design, leveling is referred to as "filling the bar". That IS the "purpose" of leveling up: to level up.

What you're claiming is the purpose is actually a perk. That's why so many people stop playing once they reach a level cap: not because they're angry they can't get any more points, but because they can't continue "filling the bar".

So I'm stating an obvious solution: let people continue "filling the bar" for a few more levels.


We already have a means of simply 'filling the bar'; BA rank. If we couldn't get any more skill points, there would be no point in levelling up, other than to find new loot again.

Don't get me wrong, I'd like a higher cap, but I really would like more skill points. Death Blossom + Many Must Fall? Yes.

Yes.
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Efficiency>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nostalgia. Always.