You have to pay for the Level cap increase...?!

#41kylekillgannonPosted 3/26/2013 2:20:34 AM
Tsuruke posted...
Lol, I never said you were wrong or I was right, thats the issue you seem to be hung up on. Your arguement is invalid and I refuse to continue further until its corrected by you, in which I would gladly continue. Plain and simple.

And yet, I'm the one digging myself in a "rut" lol. Ok guy.


Well you don't seem to be doing yourself any favors by just sitting there disqualifying my point that you can't realistically seem to argue against- Otherwise you'd have done so by now. Your only move at this point seems to be to try and hold an authoritative stance and refuse action until I leap through goal posts. Which I refuse to do because you have yet to refute my point.

We're at an impasse, you're wrong and refuse to admit it until I play to your standards and I refuse to play to your standards because you're wrong.
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History is written by those who have hanged heroes.
#42Tsuruke(Topic Creator)Posted 3/26/2013 2:25:12 AM
kylekillgannon posted...
Tsuruke posted...
Lol, I never said you were wrong or I was right, thats the issue you seem to be hung up on. Your arguement is invalid and I refuse to continue further until its corrected by you, in which I would gladly continue. Plain and simple.

And yet, I'm the one digging myself in a "rut" lol. Ok guy.


Well you don't seem to be doing yourself any favors by just sitting there disqualifying my point that you can't realistically seem to argue against- Otherwise you'd have done so by now. Your only move at this point seems to be to try and hold an authoritative stance and refuse action until I leap through goal posts. Which I refuse to do because you have yet to refute my point.

We're at an impasse, you're wrong and refuse to admit it until I play to your standards and I refuse to play to your standards because you're wrong.

Expected as much from someone such as yourself. Claiming someone as wrong would have to put you on a "higher" plane in which is not possible due to an invalid argument that was not continued. Sorry.

I told you I would gladly address your point and argument until yours is sound, yet you can't comprehend that one bit lol! WOW!
Although its has been thoroughly entertaining and eye-opening of what kind of people are out there on the internets, I'll say it one last time (maybe bold will help you comprehend)

Tsuruke posted...
Your arguement is invalid and I refuse to continue further until its corrected by you, in which I would gladly continue. Plain and simple..

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XBL GT/PSN: Tsuruke.
#43kylekillgannonPosted 3/26/2013 2:28:50 AM
Tsuruke posted...
Expected as much from someone such as yourself. Claiming someone as wrong would have to put you on a "higher" plane in which is not possible due to an invalid argument that was not continued. Sorry.

I told you I would gladly address your point and argument until yours is sound, yet you can't comprehend that one bit lol! WOW!
Although its has been thoroughly entertaining and eye-opening of what kind of people are out there on the internets, I'll say it one last time (maybe bold will help you comprehend)

Tsuruke posted...
Your arguement is invalid and I refuse to continue further until its corrected by you, in which I would gladly continue. Plain and simple..


And you're doing just as I'd expected: The same thing you've been doing for the last 20 posts.

Since we're playing the broken records here:

YOU ARE WRONG. SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU REFUSE TO FURTHER CONTINUE THE DEBATE AND ARGUE AGAINST MY POINT BECAUSE YOU CLAIM MY STATEMENT IS INVALID DOES NOT PLACE YOU IN ANY POSITION TO CLAIM TO BE RIGHT AND UNTIL YOU EMPIRICALLY REFUTE MY POINT YOU CANNOT BE RIGHT AS IT HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN WRONG.
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History is written by those who have hanged heroes.
#44Tsuruke(Topic Creator)Posted 3/26/2013 2:31:51 AM
kylekillgannon posted...
Tsuruke posted...
Expected as much from someone such as yourself. Claiming someone as wrong would have to put you on a "higher" plane in which is not possible due to an invalid argument that was not continued. Sorry.

I told you I would gladly address your point and argument until yours is sound, yet you can't comprehend that one bit lol! WOW!
Although its has been thoroughly entertaining and eye-opening of what kind of people are out there on the internets, I'll say it one last time (maybe bold will help you comprehend)

Tsuruke posted...
Your arguement is invalid and I refuse to continue further until its corrected by you, in which I would gladly continue. Plain and simple..


And you're doing just as I'd expected: The same thing you've been doing for the last 20 posts.

Since we're playing the broken records here:

YOU ARE WRONG. SIMPLY BECAUSE YOU REFUSE TO FURTHER CONTINUE THE DEBATE AND ARGUE AGAINST MY POINT BECAUSE YOU CLAIM MY STATEMENT IS INVALID DOES NOT PLACE YOU IN ANY POSITION TO CLAIM TO BE RIGHT AND UNTIL YOU EMPIRICALLY REFUTE MY POINT YOU CANNOT BE RIGHT AS IT HAS NOT BEEN PROVEN WRONG.


Nope sorry lol.
Seems like you are the one mad here, quite clear really. Judging how easily you raged when no one initially attacked you. I thought someone who has been here almost as long as I have would have a thicker skin. Guess not.

Enjoy your invalid argument until its fixed. Otherwise its been entertaining, really. Thanks! HAHA
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XBL GT/PSN: Tsuruke.
#45fredbeatswilmaPosted 3/26/2013 2:35:20 AM
kylekillgannon posted...
fredbeatswilma posted...
kylekillgannon posted...
fredbeatswilma posted...
Hey. Here's a news flash. The code didn't change much between Borderlands 1 and 2. Especially not for leveling.

Actually borderlands 1 used a linear scale and Borderlands 2 scales exponentially so there is a difference with leveling between the two.

It's why there is a massive difference between a level 49 and a level 50 weapon in this game compared to the first. Not that I generally think it mattered too much with the actual work it took to raise the level cap though but there is a difference between the two.


I do believe that's only a factor in values for health and damage from level to level. I think the experience point system is very much alike.


Enemy health, player health, and gear from level to level are pretty big factors. Experience point system really doesn't play a factor other than you fill it up to get a level.


Except in how the leveling system works. Then it's the most important. :#


Experience points mean jack s*** other than the thing you gather to get a level, same for like almost every rpg ever created. This main thing is what happens when you level. Okay for fun let's go through a playthrough of the current game by going through 2 levels.

You have your awesome skookum muckamuck sniper that does great damage here:

http://thegearcalculator.appspot.com/calc?gear=gDC0MJ0327u0K30j00tA0Qp0-4E0BO0

Now you level up to 52 and then enemies are getting tougher your skookum isn't holding it's ground as well then you find a green skookum muckamuck:

http://thegearcalculator.appspot.com/calc?gear=gsJ0MJ032Au0K30j00tA0Qp0-4E0FO0

Using this thread to calculate damage(it's 1.13 per level instead of the first posts math):

http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/showthread.php?t=227999

You're green skookum muckamuck now outdamages the purple one at 34441 damage. Every level you climb will get worse and worse as you will be having to respec your gear level to level because enemies scale at 1.15. That sweet level 52 infinity you got doc mercy to drop at the story mission in UVHM is going to be worthless in a couple of levels to probably a white pistol.

See the scaling and how gear, levels, enemy health is vastly more important than experience points.

Randy pitchford was talking about how they needed to change the math of the game and this was he may have been talking about:

http://venturebeat.com/2013/02/07/borderlands-2-level-cap-increase/

There you go. We don't know details yet but that's there's some sort of a rundown on what the level cap may have involved. Possibly changing the math for UVHM and gear, enemy, damage scaling, not experience points.

Also raid bosses health may have overflowed at higher levels I think dexiduous has like 80 billion or something stupid at the moment. Gearbox sucks at overflow btw.
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uh huh, herbal derbally berbil urbil
#46kylekillgannonPosted 3/26/2013 2:45:37 AM
Tsuruke posted...
Nope sorry lol.
Seems like you are the one mad here, quite clear really. Judging how easily you raged when no one initially attacked you. I thought someone who has been here almost as long as I have would have a thicker skin. Guess not.

Enjoy your invalid argument until its fixed. Otherwise its been entertaining, really. Thanks! HAHA


Alright. I'll present the point again and give you an ultimatum this time: Refute it accurately, or you'll have ceded your point and admitted you're wrong.

The level cap, singularly is a pointless charge. It's been proven time and again, even by the company themselves in Borderlands 1 (As well as Bethesda) that it is a simple enough issue that it can be patched into the game with minimal effort.

This contradicts your point that countless developers lost sleep and time with their families over this DLC because they were working on the Level increase.

Furthermore; That the real work put into the add on was placed on the release of a new tier of weapons, an increase to your storage capacity, and an additional game mode that exists to complement the Level Cap. Each of these things take some degree of work altogether.

The capacity increase is slight, as it only increases the value of slots available.

The new mode is of nominal challenge, as they have to scale the enemies along the progression the game would logically follow for you.

And the guns would be moderate, as they would likely be new models, with new effects, and different degrees of scaling in effects to line up on a curve above Legendary weapons.

Together, one could argue these are worth charging for. That's all I've been saying. My only question is how much would this work really be valued at in my eyes. Which is yet to be seen as I have not had any experience with it.

This is the point, there are no fallacies here in it. Only a very clear cut, simple outline of what I'm saying and the challenge for you to counter and refute it, and if you cannot, then merely make a concession.
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History is written by those who have hanged heroes.
#47kylekillgannonPosted 3/26/2013 2:48:50 AM
fredbeatswilma posted...
Experience points mean jack s*** other than the thing you gather to get a level, same for like almost every rpg ever created. This main thing is what happens when you level. Okay for fun let's go through a playthrough of the current game by going through 2 levels.


You're completely missing the point.

The argument is how easy it would be to change the highest level you can reach in the game. This isn't about how strong guns are. Those things would logically curve as they would by the formulas they have placed on them.

But the matter you're not getting is that we're talking about how easy it would be to simply adjust how high those values are allowed to reach.
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History is written by those who have hanged heroes.
#48fredbeatswilmaPosted 3/26/2013 2:52:58 AM
kylekillgannon posted...
fredbeatswilma posted...
Experience points mean jack s*** other than the thing you gather to get a level, same for like almost every rpg ever created. This main thing is what happens when you level. Okay for fun let's go through a playthrough of the current game by going through 2 levels.


You're completely missing the point.

The argument is how easy it would be to change the highest level you can reach in the game. This isn't about how strong guns are. Those things would logically curve as they would by the formulas they have placed on them.

But the matter you're not getting is that we're talking about how easy it would be to simply adjust how high those values are allowed to reach.


I agree it's easy to change the min/max of a level on a game. That's not what I am talking about though. I am talking about what happens when you do so.

Good job ignoring everything else though.
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uh huh, herbal derbally berbil urbil
#49kylekillgannonPosted 3/26/2013 2:56:17 AM
fredbeatswilma posted...
I agree it's easy to change the min/max of a level on a game. That's not what I am talking about though. I am talking about what happens when you do so.

Good job ignoring everything else though.


I wasn't ignoring everything else. I understand entirely that things go radically up radically faster the higher level we reach. I get it, the game operates on exponents instead of linears like the first did.. My point was what you just agreed to. That it's simple. Stupidly simple. To the point that it's something a patch could simply do without anyone noticing or losing sleep.
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History is written by those who have hanged heroes.
#50Tsuruke(Topic Creator)Posted 3/26/2013 3:01:08 AM
kylekillgannon posted...
Tsuruke posted...
Nope sorry lol.
Seems like you are the one mad here, quite clear really. Judging how easily you raged when no one initially attacked you. I thought someone who has been here almost as long as I have would have a thicker skin. Guess not.

Enjoy your invalid argument until its fixed. Otherwise its been entertaining, really. Thanks! HAHA


Alright. I'll present the point again and give you an ultimatum this time: Refute it accurately, or you'll have ceded your point and admitted you're wrong.

The level cap, singularly is a pointless charge. It's been proven time and again, even by the company themselves in Borderlands 1 (As well as Bethesda) that it is a simple enough issue that it can be patched into the game with minimal effort.

This contradicts your point that countless developers lost sleep and time with their families over this DLC because they were working on the Level increase.

Furthermore; That the real work put into the add on was placed on the release of a new tier of weapons, an increase to your storage capacity, and an additional game mode that exists to complement the Level Cap. Each of these things take some degree of work altogether.

The capacity increase is slight, as it only increases the value of slots available.

The new mode is of nominal challenge, as they have to scale the enemies along the progression the game would logically follow for you.

And the guns would be moderate, as they would likely be new models, with new effects, and different degrees of scaling in effects to line up on a curve above Legendary weapons.

Together, one could argue these are worth charging for. That's all I've been saying. My only question is how much would this work really be valued at in my eyes. Which is yet to be seen as I have not had any experience with it.

This is the point, there are no fallacies here in it. Only a very clear cut, simple outline of what I'm saying and the challenge for you to counter and refute it, and if you cannot, then merely make a concession.

Sigh, you never went back and corrected your original fallacies but simple omitted it and collectively stated your "points" sorry that is not the same thing. Secondly giving me an ultimatum is hardly a sound argument either -- neither are the sounds arguments you keep PMing me (with the ad hominem fallacy in 85% of those PMs)

Since you need me to hold your hand through this process (thats fine, not everyone is philosophically inclined) we will go back to square one since you seem to be incapable of doing yourself:

My original question: You seem to think that the price of this DLC is not justified nor do you think they spent the "time" as I claim subjectively.

Your point: I'm ill-informed to you because you seem to think I don't know exactly what I'm talking about, You don't think that the price of this DLC is justified which was expressed quite biased. (in doing so committing a fallacy)

My point: I label you out loud for my personal reference on how to get a sound argument out of you looking past the fallacy I support my point speaking from experiences and philosophical subjective points of view.

Your point: RAGE, RAGE, RAGE, etc. (fallacies)

My point: proven that I know what I'm talking about as far as programing in doing so committed a fallacy myself in which I eventually correct.

It continues from there, please go back and fix those previous arguments instead of omitting it and starting anew. This is not a matter of whom you think is "right" and "wrong". If you cannot understand how Logic works exactly then I seen no further point on wasting my time and knowledge on someone not willing to comprehend. Thats how it works.
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XBL GT/PSN: Tsuruke.