Why Borderlands 2 is a terrible "loot farming" game compared to Monster Hunter

#1danishjuggler21Posted 4/25/2013 8:37:26 AM
Disclaimer: I love Borderlands 2. It's a fantastic game, but I mostly love it for the combat. The loot farming aspects of the game are practically broken compared with another of my favorite games from this console generation: Monster Hunter Tri. It should also be noted that I haven't played Monster Hunter Ultimate yet, so my opinion is not based on that game (I plan on getting it after the semester's over, as I don't want to try and balance my time between grad school and Monster Hunter).

Disclaimer 2: This may be a long post. If you're not interested, hit that "back" button on your browser.

****************************************************

1. Drop rates in Borderlands 2 are atrocious.
For most boss enemies in this game, the drop rate for their unique legendary item is very low (0.05 is what I've heard). For some, it seems even lower than that - it wouldn't surprise me if Doc Mercy's drop rate for the Infinity is <0.01. And we have to keep in mind that this doesn't mean that you WILL get the Infinity if you kill Mercy 100 times - it means that in the long run, over hundreds of thousands of kills, you'll find that he drops it about 1/100 times. You could easily kill him 200 or 300 times and not get a drop.
Monster Hunter, on the other hand, tends to have generous drop rates. Most monster materials have a drop probability of 0.3 to 0.5. In addition, each large monster that you kill will yield several such materials, so each time you kill them you get multiple chances at getting a particular material. How do they offset this? Monsters don't drop weapons and armor (with the exception of rustshards); instead, you create them using materials that monsters drop. So you still have to kill a particular monster several times in order to create the weapon/armor associated with him, but luck is less of a factor.
In Monster Hunter, only the rarest materials, such as the Deviljho gem, will have drop probability of 0.05. Which brings me to the next point.

2. Borderlands 2 lacks special events.
BL2 has only had a couple of special events where drop rates were increased. The most notable one was where they made Vermivorous easier to spawn, and increased the drop rate of the Norfleet. Otherwise, BL2 is exactly the same game from day to day, week to week.
In Monster Hunter Tri, though, there was a rotating calendar of special event quests which often involved greater drop probabilities for rare items. Looking for a Deviljho gem? Instead of killing Deviljho dozens of times, do the event quest where you have to fight two Deviljhos in the arena - you're almost guaranteed a Deviljho gem! If you need a Rathian ruby, you need only wait for the event quest where you fight her and Rathalos at the same time, and you may actually get several rubies. The World Eater event quest made finding legendary charms much easier. You get the picture. This actually gave players more incentive to keep playing online week after week, and it sure made farming less tedious, which again brings me to the next point.
---
XBOX Live Gamertag: danishjuggler03
"I refuse to quote myself in my signature - I've always thought people who do that are lame." - danishjuggler21
#2danishjuggler21(Topic Creator)Posted 4/25/2013 8:37:39 AM
3. Farming is boring in Borderlands 2
Let's say you're farming for the Bee shield. What do you do? You go to Hunter Hilquist, shoot him a couple of times, and he's dead in less than 10 seconds. No challenge, no fun. Now rinse and repeat about five dozen times, and you might get a Bee shield.
In Monster Hunter, farming is much more compelling because each run on a particular monster can take upwards of 30 minutes depending on your skill and gear. Even a really good team would take 10 minutes or more to take down Deviljho or Alatreon. Even once you had end-game gear, it was still challenging, and you felt a sense of accomplishment each time you brought the monster down. But, of course, it took fewer runs to get the loot you wanted. In Borderlands 2, it's a boring, soulless grind.

4. There is no duping in Monster Hunter
In Monster Hunter, you can't drop or even trade your weapons and armor, nor even materials above a certain rarity. This makes it impossible for someone else to just give you end-game gear; you have to work for it yourself. Therefore, if you see someone wearing full Barioth armor, you know they've killed Barioth quite a few times, and it tells you something about their skill as a player. This is offset, of course, by the generous drop rates, so it's actually a GOOD thing. If duping were eliminated from BL2, we'd all lose our minds because the drop rates are atrocious.

5. No loot ninjas in Monster Hunter
Here's how Gearbox WANTS us to farm loot in their game: four people kill Doc Mercy over and over and over and over, until finally the Infinity drops after 200 kills. Great! But who gets the weapon? Whoever grabs it first? Whoever "needs" it most? That doesn't make sense, as obviously all four people want it. So no matter what, three people will be unhappy, unless you dupe it (which Gearbox really doesn't want us to do, but doesn't feel like stopping us).
In Monster Hunter, everyone gets different loot. At the end of a quest where you killed a large monster, each player gets a number of rewards that are separate from what the other players got. It's possible for all four players to get that rare gem, and it's possible that only one will. Either way, there are no hard feelings because no one deprived the other players of their rare item. If someone got that rare item and the others didn't, they might even congratulate him!

And that's about it. I feel like I'm missing something, but I can't think of it. So I may add another reason later. Feel free to disagree - I won't get upset.
---
XBOX Live Gamertag: danishjuggler03
"I refuse to quote myself in my signature - I've always thought people who do that are lame." - danishjuggler21
#3williswrathPosted 4/25/2013 8:42:07 AM
That's an awful lot of typing, since you're comparing BL2 to a game that isn't even on this console.
---
PSN WillisWrath
GT Wondrous1
#4SinisterBladePosted 4/25/2013 9:03:45 AM
I agree, but did you play the first game? The infamous Rathalos/Ian plates where pretty dang rare. That was a big factor in headlocking's popularity in MH1, parties would usually just run tail farms, and if nobody got one, you retired and tried again. I remember carving a Rathian plate, and then right after, carved Los' tail and got his plate. My friends where pretty envious. Was that mission in the swamp with both of em lurking around.
---
What is a man?!
A miserable little pile of secrets!
#5spfurm01Posted 4/25/2013 9:07:39 AM
I like Monster Hunter. A lot. But it isn't a loot-based game.
---
We know Gavorn's tricks! We leave!
#6EX_KoakumaPosted 4/25/2013 9:08:22 AM
Pretty valid points, but I think a lot of it comes from the fact that Gearbox still seems to be in the "learning" phase with Borderlands. Some of the choices made seem to be a bit immature. Also Borderlands only has three games, while Monster Hunter has like twenty-bajillion so far. See what works and what doesn't and the like.

Or Gearbox is just dumb and the Borderlands series will just slowly collapse like a flan in a cupboard.
---
http://puu.sh/2EUyC
#7danishjuggler21(Topic Creator)Posted 4/25/2013 9:12:49 AM
EX_Koakuma posted...
Pretty valid points, but I think a lot of it comes from the fact that Gearbox still seems to be in the "learning" phase with Borderlands. Some of the choices made seem to be a bit immature. Also Borderlands only has three games, while Monster Hunter has like twenty-bajillion so far. See what works and what doesn't and the like.

Or Gearbox is just dumb and the Borderlands series will just slowly collapse like a flan in a cupboard.


The problem is that Gearbox will see that Borderlands 2 sold better than Borderlands, and just assume it's because they did everything better than in the first game. They'll probably reduce the drop rates of legendary items even further, and also eliminate duping and trading from the game to really drive people nuts.
---
XBOX Live Gamertag: danishjuggler03
"I refuse to quote myself in my signature - I've always thought people who do that are lame." - danishjuggler21
#8LordofHuntersPosted 4/25/2013 9:45:56 AM
Across all of the MH games I have about 1500 hours, mucho respect for others who've played it.

Waiting for the vita version to come out, hopefully this fall.

But to contribute to the topic, MH can always pull me back due to the reward and play style of it. Now I find myself only playing Borderlands whenever someone is on and invites me.
---
PSN/GT: Azure_Soul/Azure0Soul
Games being played: Borderlands 2, Mass Effect, Monster Hunter, Persona 4 Golden.
#9PanopictonguyPosted 4/25/2013 9:46:36 AM
Monster Hunter is;

1. Geared Towards the hardcore crowd
2. Extremely time consuming
3. Difficult

the drop rates are not better in MH. it's just the fact there is no duping. even there isn't an end all be all east way to get whatever you want you just have to suck it up and deal with it. Because people pass gear out like Candy in this game actually having to work for it puts people off.

Also compared to the amount of work to get certain "materials" because you're not getting weapons. The time spent can be frustrating. For best possible results you have to beat the ever loving **** out of a monster breaking all of it's parts and slicing and carving it's tail if it has one, along with capturing it. That is not an easy task solo you're looking at no less than 10 mins on a quick run. On tough G-Rank monsters you're looking at roughly half an hour to kill a monster for a 2% drop that you might need multiple of.

Lastly Monster Hunter is NOT A LOOT GAME. anybody that thinks so didn't know what a loot game is. Nothing in Mh drops equipable gear. You get materials abs you craft your gear. It's about grinding and hunting monsters. It's a game abouy Monster Hunting. You hunt monsters to improve your gear to hunt stronger monsters.

If you complain about fighting raid bosses for low drop rates you can't praise monster Hunter because that's all it is, fighting raid bosses for low drop rates.
---
Oh, you thought they made this game for you? You clearly bought the wrong game.
#10drake_skullPosted 4/25/2013 9:50:23 AM
Why not compare it to a game closer to what GBX want it to be like Diablo or WOW.
---
"If your going to ask someone to save the world, make sure they like it the way it is"
http://www.youtube.com/user/Drakeskull23