Krieg discussion with JUST PURE FACTS... check your emotions at the door

#21Laharl00Posted 5/16/2013 5:23:05 PM
StormWolf12 posted...
Laharl00 posted...
Post all the videos you want, you nor any other of the butt hurt Krieg haters can dispel the mathematical FACT I presented in a previous post.

I deleted, uninstalled and re-installed his character then started over with no carried over flavor text equipment and at level 15 I can kill AND restore full health while in BAR badass varkids 3 levels above me(you know..with the blinking red skull) which as we all know adds a serious damage reduction to your attacks period.

Which begs the question to you Wolf and your other butt hurt friend-
Are you using modded equipment?
If the answer is no, then your argument is baseless as mathematically it cannot be proven comparing apples to oranges, and if the answer is yes, then we all know what that means...

So in the immortal words of the great Bruce Lee..

You lose Carl Miller.


Lol level 15. No I'm not modding equipment.

Now, who's butt hurt? What's your point? That you don't understand that BXR doesn't increase Roid damage? That's the problem, brah. That's the problem.


So, still NO explanation whatsoever from you..

Level makes no difference as I started over to do my own math.

15 with garbage equipment and only 5 in feed the meat, I hit a badass varkid 3 levels above me with a standard melee it did 94 damage, in BAR it did 603 with a +135 roid shield equipped and after it hit me once on a crit I obviously didn't have a shield..(and I eventually killed it while in BAR and got full health back)

So, explain to me what level has to do with anything?

Your entire cry has been about math and damage numbers but they evidently work. And if the algorithm for the roid damage is last and not affected by BAR then that is how GBX decided it to stack rather than all inclusive and that is simply a potato/potatoe issue between you and GBX. That doesn't make the skill broken.

It's only broken because you can't make it do what you thought you could do with other equipment and didn't take into account the differences in damage equations by GBX for him versus other characters.

I'm not butt hurt either "brah"

I'm busy being right.
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Don't ask me, I don't know. Wait! The answer is always BACON!
#22spfurm01Posted 5/16/2013 5:23:46 PM
Laharl00 posted...
Except the rapier doesn't have the base damage of 10-it is varied depending on the level of the weapon and his axe doesn't have a damage chart available to compare these two weapons in this way. He unequips one for the other in BAR obviously.

Until there is a SET chart showing the base damage for the axe ITSELF, no honest comparison with the axe and any equipable weapon is possible. Saying those two clowns tested a weapon with a GIVEN damage number versus one that has no set damage variable to prove it is broken is unintelligent.
or for those who need help...

X=axe(unknown) and Y=rapier(10)
if 250% of Y=25 then solve for x when 500% of x=z

Next..


ok, I'll bite.

1) The damage of a gun doesn't change the damage of melee...a rapier's damage bonus is the same bonus regardless of level
2) BXR Axe swings do 5x your base damage. The number is known, and if somehow it isn't it's really easy to find out
3) Please read the following because you don't understand how damage is calculated

EX_Koakuma posted...
http://forums.gearboxsoftware.com/showpost.php?p=4113323&postcount=243

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#23Obnoxious_FrogPosted 5/16/2013 5:24:06 PM
Nafzger posted...
Are we completely sure this "broken" aspect wasn't intentional? Perhaps giving him all of these melee bonuses would make him overpowered, or maybe GBX decided he would be overpowered so they formulated it differently?

EX: In ME3s multiplayer, the asari huntress (infiltrator) doesn't get a weapon damage bonus from cloak. I said it was intentional while others said it was broken. It turns out that it was intentional and they specifically gave her power damage over weapon damage because of the asari's natural biotics. That's just an example, but is the same not possible for this character? Is it not possible that they made him unique in this way?

Obviously that doesn't make him good, but it's just a thought.

And a question about raids: I heard he isn't good at these, but do you mean that it's actually impossible or it's just really, really hard?


I think you're on to something. It may have been intentional to keep Zero head of the melee pack, which I'm fine with. Otherwise, they bust what is arguably his best build.
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#24StormWolf12Posted 5/16/2013 5:26:56 PM
Laharl00 posted...
StormWolf12 posted...
Laharl00 posted...
Post all the videos you want, you nor any other of the butt hurt Krieg haters can dispel the mathematical FACT I presented in a previous post.

I deleted, uninstalled and re-installed his character then started over with no carried over flavor text equipment and at level 15 I can kill AND restore full health while in BAR badass varkids 3 levels above me(you know..with the blinking red skull) which as we all know adds a serious damage reduction to your attacks period.

Which begs the question to you Wolf and your other butt hurt friend-
Are you using modded equipment?
If the answer is no, then your argument is baseless as mathematically it cannot be proven comparing apples to oranges, and if the answer is yes, then we all know what that means...

So in the immortal words of the great Bruce Lee..

You lose Carl Miller.


Lol level 15. No I'm not modding equipment.

Now, who's butt hurt? What's your point? That you don't understand that BXR doesn't increase Roid damage? That's the problem, brah. That's the problem.


So, still NO explanation whatsoever from you..

Level makes no difference as I started over to do my own math.

15 with garbage equipment and only 5 in feed the meat, I hit a badass varkid 3 levels above me with a standard melee it did 94 damage, in BAR it did 603 with a +135 roid shield equipped and after it hit me once on a crit I obviously didn't have a shield..(and I eventually killed it while in BAR and got full health back)

So, explain to me what level has to do with anything?

Your entire cry has been about math and damage numbers but they evidently work. And if the algorithm for the roid damage is last and not affected by BAR then that is how GBX decided it to stack rather than all inclusive and that is simply a potato/potatoe issue between you and GBX. That doesn't make the skill broken.

It's only broken because you can't make it do what you thought you could do with other equipment and didn't take into account the differences in damage equations by GBX for him versus other characters.

I'm not butt hurt either "brah"

I'm busy being right.


LOL Tell me more about level 15
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"He's the Zer0 we need, not the Zer0 we deserve"
#25duericPosted 5/16/2013 5:39:45 PM
Nafzger posted...
Are we completely sure this "broken" aspect wasn't intentional?


The bottom line is none of it matters when you actually see how much fun he is to play. If it's not intentional, it will be fixed. If it is, oh well.

The internet has ruined everything from Star Wars to granola bars. It will continue to do so as long as people have a forum to point out **** that nobody cared about before they read it.

I call it, "internet presentation syndrome". People are more concerned with how they appear to strangers online that they ignore everything else. Maybe even their own opinions just to make an attention grabbing post that sounds good.
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"It's like people using the internet have never heard of the internet." - SadHillShowdown Gamefaqs member
#26Laharl00Posted 5/16/2013 5:41:30 PM
StormWolf12 posted...
Laharl00 posted...
StormWolf12 posted...
Laharl00 posted...
Post all the videos you want, you nor any other of the butt hurt Krieg haters can dispel the mathematical FACT I presented in a previous post.

I deleted, uninstalled and re-installed his character then started over with no carried over flavor text equipment and at level 15 I can kill AND restore full health while in BAR badass varkids 3 levels above me(you know..with the blinking red skull) which as we all know adds a serious damage reduction to your attacks period.

Which begs the question to you Wolf and your other butt hurt friend-
Are you using modded equipment?
If the answer is no, then your argument is baseless as mathematically it cannot be proven comparing apples to oranges, and if the answer is yes, then we all know what that means...

So in the immortal words of the great Bruce Lee..

You lose Carl Miller.


Lol level 15. No I'm not modding equipment.

Now, who's butt hurt? What's your point? That you don't understand that BXR doesn't increase Roid damage? That's the problem, brah. That's the problem.


So, still NO explanation whatsoever from you..

Level makes no difference as I started over to do my own math.

15 with garbage equipment and only 5 in feed the meat, I hit a badass varkid 3 levels above me with a standard melee it did 94 damage, in BAR it did 603 with a +135 roid shield equipped and after it hit me once on a crit I obviously didn't have a shield..(and I eventually killed it while in BAR and got full health back)

So, explain to me what level has to do with anything?

Your entire cry has been about math and damage numbers but they evidently work. And if the algorithm for the roid damage is last and not affected by BAR then that is how GBX decided it to stack rather than all inclusive and that is simply a potato/potatoe issue between you and GBX. That doesn't make the skill broken.

It's only broken because you can't make it do what you thought you could do with other equipment and didn't take into account the differences in damage equations by GBX for him versus other characters.

I'm not butt hurt either "brah"

I'm busy being right.


LOL Tell me more about level 15


Didn't expect you to have an intelligent response. That's usually the sign of someone who has no basis of argument.

To be expected.
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GT-KVirus11
Don't ask me, I don't know. Wait! The answer is always BACON!
#27NafzgerPosted 5/16/2013 5:44:12 PM
dueric posted...
Nafzger posted...
Are we completely sure this "broken" aspect wasn't intentional?


The bottom line is none of it matters when you actually see how much fun he is to play. If it's not intentional, it will be fixed. If it is, oh well.

The internet has ruined everything from Star Wars to granola bars. It will continue to do so as long as people have a forum to point out **** that nobody cared about before they read it.

I call it, "internet presentation syndrome". People are more concerned with how they appear to strangers online that they ignore everything else. Maybe even their own opinions just to make an attention grabbing post that sounds good.


I can see both sides. If you play the game for fun without the need for raids, I can see you enjoying Krieg. If you play the game for fun with raids, I can see you not liking Krieg. Broken to me means unplayable. Not viable on a higher difficulty doesn't necessarily mean unplayable.

So if you bought him for raid solos, of course you're going to feel ripped off. But if you just bought him to buy him for fun in everything else, you'll probably get your money's worth. Knowwutimean? But I can understand feeling like you wasted $10 if you have 4/5 other characters who are more viable on higher difficulties.
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XBL:ArsenalofGlory | PSN: Nafzger
http://www.last.fm/user/Rainbow_Smasher
#28SuprSaiyanRockrPosted 5/16/2013 5:47:14 PM
Obnoxious_Frog posted...
Nafzger posted...
Are we completely sure this "broken" aspect wasn't intentional? Perhaps giving him all of these melee bonuses would make him overpowered, or maybe GBX decided he would be overpowered so they formulated it differently?

EX: In ME3s multiplayer, the asari huntress (infiltrator) doesn't get a weapon damage bonus from cloak. I said it was intentional while others said it was broken. It turns out that it was intentional and they specifically gave her power damage over weapon damage because of the asari's natural biotics. That's just an example, but is the same not possible for this character? Is it not possible that they made him unique in this way?

Obviously that doesn't make him good, but it's just a thought.

And a question about raids: I heard he isn't good at these, but do you mean that it's actually impossible or it's just really, really hard?


I think you're on to something. It may have been intentional to keep Zero head of the melee pack, which I'm fine with. Otherwise, they bust what is arguably his best build.


I could understand if it was the case, but I hope not. They've gimped him for the sake of balance, if so; and, the imbalance was caused by the design.

If they think he's going to be too powerful, then I think they should drop the bonus to 400% or something, and keep the regular melee formula. Kinda stupid that a bladed weapon + roid does more damage than BAR + roid.
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GT/PSN: SuprSaiyanRockr
Efficiency>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Nostalgia. Always.
#29spfurm01Posted 5/16/2013 5:49:28 PM(edited)
Unless the damage formula changes for Krieg, Roid Shield + Rapier will give him more damage per melee attack than BXR unless his base melee damage is going to be greater than the melee damage bonus on the Roid shield. Going off the gearbox forum thread, I've factored the two equations in the post linked above so we can see what Krieg's base damage at 61 would need to be to outdamage thumper/rapier at level 61:

Rapier equation:
(x+150765)(13.5) = damage
13.5x + 13.5(150765) = damage
13.5x + 2035327.5 = damage

BXR equation:
(5x+150765)(4.5) = damage
22.5x + 4.5(150765) = damage
22.5x + 678442.5 = damage

So, if we set these equations to be equal to each other, we can find out how much base melee damage Krieg needs to do to surpass the rapier/thumper

22.5x + 678442.5 = 13.5x + 2035327.5
22.5x = 13.5x + 1356885
9x = 1356885
x = 150765

Alternatively
22.5x + 4.5(150765) = 13.5x + 13.5(150765)
22.5x = 13.5x + 9(150765)
9x = 9(150765)
x = 150765

EDIT: I should probably include that the bonus roid damage from the thumper is 150765 damage
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We know Gavorn's tricks! We leave!
#30NafzgerPosted 5/16/2013 5:49:55 PM
SuprSaiyanRockr posted...
I could understand if it was the case, but I hope not. They've gimped him for the sake of balance, if so; and, the imbalance was caused by the design.

If they think he's going to be too powerful, then I think they should drop the bonus to 400% or something, and keep the regular melee formula. Kinda stupid that a bladed weapon + roid does more damage than BAR + roid.


Doesn't that one thread show that his melee damage increased to 500% flat, not 500% on top of what he already does?

The bladed weapon thing would almost make sense if it's because he's using an entirely different weapon for melee. But it should be reverse. Since he's using a unique weapon for his melee, it should do more damage than a pistol with a melee attachment. Maybe they overcompensated for balance and ended up screwing stuff up?
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XBL:ArsenalofGlory | PSN: Nafzger
http://www.last.fm/user/Rainbow_Smasher