About the Bee nerf...

#61Adzy2005Posted 11/13/2012 7:35:12 PM
I don't have a problem with people using The Bee, in their games or mine, I have a problem with people crying over a bug fix.
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"Tell me you brought the ****ing golf shoes!" - Raoul Duke
PSN: mr_bungle50221
#62TallulahSoiePosted 11/13/2012 7:56:33 PM
DrachenBaren posted...
I have explained many times "what the point" of nerfing it is. Go read them back, maybe a few times, let it really sink in.
Also every DLC there will be new bosses to kill and they dont want everyone just forever CC+Bee through every single boss that comes out.
Bee+CC gets kinda boring after a while don't you think? Or are you that boring of a person that mindlessly oneshotting everything with no skill or brain powr required is somehow fun?


I'm pretty sure the reason people are agitated at this has nothing to do with the game's difficulty, but the game's grind.

I killed Terramorphous, Hyperious, Gee, etc without using "cheap" tactics, and I do enjoy doing those fights with misc. builds, but what I don't like is knowing I'll have to kill that same stupid boss countless amounts of time to get the item I want.

It took me over 100 Terramorphous kills to get the Blood to finally drop, which was the item I wanted most (which became obsolete in less than 4 days with the expansion coming out).

What I DON'T enjoy is having my bosses locked out from me on timers, having to gather a group of people together whenever I get the whim to play my NOT A ****ING MMO game to kill a boss, and knowing full well there's a slim to none chance he's actually going to give me the item I want.

When I have ~1% chance per kill to get the item I want, having my kill per hour count go from 15-20 down to say... 3... YAY HOLY COW THIS GAME RULES NOW!

If I WANT to use gamebreaking mechanics to counter your fun crushing mechanics, I want that right. Forcefully ripping it away from me is lame.

I'm not paying you a monthly fee. There's no reason to "keep me playing." I play because I like your game. Making me like it less is only going to make me spend less money on it.

It's not so much the fact that the Bee is being nerfed that agitates me. It's the fact that they're deliberately taking away mechanics people enjoy in patches, instead of purely fixing PROBLEMS.

You don't like the Bee methods, don't use it. If you have fun using it, despite the insults childishly thrown at you by elitists, then by all means use it.


^This.

This nerf has me quite annoyed. I can't say this enough; "This isn't an MMO". Do they have the right to change something we own? Can they get around modifying something we payed for and own simply by calling it a bug? etc etc.
In my opinion the answer is no.

In an MMO the answer is yes. A persistant world, an economy, and a need for balance. A game without a real end.

B2 has none of that and in my opinion they don't have the right to do this.
I never signed an agreement stating they could do whatever they want to MY game. Oh, but "you must accept this update or you can't play B2". Come off it.
I could care less about this "nerf". I'm more concerned about the precedent it sets for the future. If game companies change their minds later and decide to change part of your favorite game and you have ZERO say in it. I really don't feel like lecturing a bunch of 15 year old about ethics and other crap. People who have no problem with this just get your mommy to buy you Halo 4.
#63Adzy2005Posted 11/13/2012 8:01:40 PM(edited)
They actually patch and rebalance pretty much every single game on consoles these days if it bothers you that much I think you should stop playing video games. Also they don't stop you from playing the game, just playing it online.
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"Tell me you brought the ****ing golf shoes!" - Raoul Duke
PSN: mr_bungle50221
#64TallulahSoiePosted 11/13/2012 8:05:59 PM
Adzy2005 posted...
They actually patch and rebalance pretty much every single game on consoles these days if it bothers you that much I think you should stop playing video games.


I've played a lot of games that require updates. They have all stated they were fixes bugs or glitches. "When you go to this area the game freezes. Our bad. We fixed that." Not one has said "lol, so we made this sword. it's REALLY strong. so now we're gonna make it a less strong."

Someone said before that at one point someone at Gearbox must've had a bee with a shotgun on. This is just them covering their ass calling it a bug. If it was a real bug it would have been fixed last month. People have had the bee since the week the game came out. I had one within 3-4 days.
#65Adzy2005Posted 11/13/2012 8:07:49 PM
TallulahSoie posted...
Adzy2005 posted...
They actually patch and rebalance pretty much every single game on consoles these days if it bothers you that much I think you should stop playing video games.


I've played a lot of games that require updates. They have all stated they were fixes bugs or glitches. "When you go to this area the game freezes. Our bad. We fixed that." Not one has said "lol, so we made this sword. it's REALLY strong. so now we're gonna make it a less strong."

Someone said before that at one point someone at Gearbox must've had a bee with a shotgun on. This is just them covering their ass calling it a bug. If it was a real bug it would have been fixed last month. People have had the bee since the week the game came out. I had one within 3-4 days.


Dark Souls has done this many times with their patches.
Battlefield and CoD tweak and rebalance guns
The list goes on.
---
"Tell me you brought the ****ing golf shoes!" - Raoul Duke
PSN: mr_bungle50221
#66firstbornnycPosted 11/13/2012 8:11:08 PM
TallulahSoie posted...
DrachenBaren posted...
I have explained many times "what the point" of nerfing it is. Go read them back, maybe a few times, let it really sink in.
Also every DLC there will be new bosses to kill and they dont want everyone just forever CC+Bee through every single boss that comes out.
Bee+CC gets kinda boring after a while don't you think? Or are you that boring of a person that mindlessly oneshotting everything with no skill or brain powr required is somehow fun?


I'm pretty sure the reason people are agitated at this has nothing to do with the game's difficulty, but the game's grind.

I killed Terramorphous, Hyperious, Gee, etc without using "cheap" tactics, and I do enjoy doing those fights with misc. builds, but what I don't like is knowing I'll have to kill that same stupid boss countless amounts of time to get the item I want.

It took me over 100 Terramorphous kills to get the Blood to finally drop, which was the item I wanted most (which became obsolete in less than 4 days with the expansion coming out).

What I DON'T enjoy is having my bosses locked out from me on timers, having to gather a group of people together whenever I get the whim to play my NOT A ****ING MMO game to kill a boss, and knowing full well there's a slim to none chance he's actually going to give me the item I want.

When I have ~1% chance per kill to get the item I want, having my kill per hour count go from 15-20 down to say... 3... YAY HOLY COW THIS GAME RULES NOW!

If I WANT to use gamebreaking mechanics to counter your fun crushing mechanics, I want that right. Forcefully ripping it away from me is lame.

I'm not paying you a monthly fee. There's no reason to "keep me playing." I play because I like your game. Making me like it less is only going to make me spend less money on it.

It's not so much the fact that the Bee is being nerfed that agitates me. It's the fact that they're deliberately taking away mechanics people enjoy in patches, instead of purely fixing PROBLEMS.

You don't like the Bee methods, don't use it. If you have fun using it, despite the insults childishly thrown at you by elitists, then by all means use it.


^This.

This nerf has me quite annoyed. I can't say this enough; "This isn't an MMO". Do they have the right to change something we own? Can they get around modifying something we payed for and own simply by calling it a bug? etc etc.
In my opinion the answer is no.

In an MMO the answer is yes. A persistant world, an economy, and a need for balance. A game without a real end.

B2 has none of that and in my opinion they don't have the right to do this.
I never signed an agreement stating they could do whatever they want to MY game. Oh, but "you must accept this update or you can't play B2". Come off it.
I could care less about this "nerf". I'm more concerned about the precedent it sets for the future. If game companies change their minds later and decide to change part of your favorite game and you have ZERO say in it. I really don't feel like lecturing a bunch of 15 year old about ethics and other crap. People who have no problem with this just get your mommy to buy you Halo 4.

it has been stated before in arguments about paying for disc locked content but i think it is apt here as well, you dont actually own the game Borderlands 2 and all its content still belong to the Gearbox company, what you are paying for when you spend your 60 bucks is the right to play their copyrighted material, the only thing you own that is legally your property is the actual disc.
#67Adzy2005Posted 11/13/2012 8:18:04 PM
/\This.
It is their game they can do what they want with it, don't like it, don't buy it. Simple.
If enough people stop giving them money then maybe they will think and change their patching policies.
Me? I really don't care about minor tweaks to a video game where the most fun part for me is just derping around with my buddies having a laugh while shooting stuff in the face.
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"Tell me you brought the ****ing golf shoes!" - Raoul Duke
PSN: mr_bungle50221
#68firstbornnycPosted 11/13/2012 8:47:12 PM
yea if you are really that upset and want to send a message to the company,stop playing the game, boycott. dont buy their game,or any of their products...but that is a real shame if you have to take it that far because its apparent that alot of work went into making this game and with all the crap thats being released and rushed out just to make quick $$ you would think a game like this would be more appreciated than that, or you could just complain and spam Randy Pitchfords twitter, but all that will accomplish is make the company scared to put out new content for fear of the gaming community not being totally pleased with everything they do...IMO just relax and enjoy the new content i havent heard any comments about the improvements they made only "OH MY GOD THEY NURFED THE BEE F THIS COMPANY I WANT MY MONEY BACK". if you have so much going on in your life that this one Item was your sole source of enjoyment in the game then maybe its time you put the game down and played something else.
#69MHNetioPosted 11/13/2012 8:55:05 PM
I can only see this benefiting the community at large.

The reason for this is there are a few games, such as Dragon's Dogma, in which there is a "limited time" boss which the community fights, but only those who kill it (and those who log in within twenty minutes of it dying to kill it in a weakened state) get it's loot. Loot which is unique to killing it online.

What this has done is create a very altruistic community, with those who have been more fortunate than others sharing their wealth. Also for contrast, Dragon's Dogma has no level cap on their weapons. You're free to use it when you get it- the only requirements being if you're the correct class for usage or not. Borderlands 2 has level requirements, meaning a new person can not be using game-breaking equipment within seconds of getting it.

It's entirely possible to dupe items, and being as this is a non-competitive game and also given how hard it's now going to be to drop good items, I fail to understand how this is going to be a bad thing.

One of the issues that gets raised is that it will affect players of lower level and/ or with lesser equipment, impacting the enjoyment of the game for the host and/ or other players of similarly lower comparative strength playing the host's game too. If someone is joining your game and it is evident that they aren't going to play in a way the host likes, then the host can kick them. This goes to more than the use of good equipment- this applies to sticking with the group, going at the pace the host is playing, ninja looting, revivals, the list really goes on. There is so much terms of playstyle and gaming etiquette that players need to abide by and the rules vary from host to host. Ultimately, it's dealer's choice; the host decides who stays and goes.

Now what we see from this is anti-duping mentalities saying that now the dupers have free reign of the trading market. Clearly these groups can consolidate far more items of greater rarity and flood the community with them, sinking it's value. Yes that is true. However it is quite folly to believe that non-dupers are in direct competition with dupers. This is because there is no effectual market in the game and you never really know who you're dealing with on the other end of the bargaining table. The results are that a trade is made- an exchange of items. What happens to the items after that is of no concern nor business of the original owner after the trade is made. And since the use of the equipment comes back to being on the whims of the host, then it's easy to see how this all becomes full circle and really a non-issue.

The limited time bosses improve the game somewhat because of this. Freedom of loot has never harmed other games (it has, in fact, improved games with active competitive communities, such as Dark Souls, as it evens the playing field). I think what is being aimed for here by Rockstar is a way to force the player(s) to enjoy the boss fights, rather than view them as a more grandiose road-bump albeit minor annoyance to be dealt with before the invariable explosion of loot fountains.
#70ednizarPosted 11/13/2012 8:57:13 PM
When did they nerf the bee?
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PSN: ednizar