Don't you think the "no penalty on death" trend is going a bit too far?

#1jackypacky123Posted 10/12/2012 3:46:30 PM
I have been playing for some hours (still haven't reached Flynn) and the only thing that annoys me from the game is how it handles your character dying. It takes a hilarious amount of money (most players say it is useless anyway) and actually REWARDS you with ammo. We are not talking if the punishment is hard or not, dying is handled like an acomplishment. Complete a quest and get a weapon. Jump into the frozen waters and get a free ammo refill on all your weapons. Oh. I forgot. It's not free, it costed 14$.

Don't you think this is absurd? I know even Diablo 2's system, back in the old days where challenge was considered something good, was ridiculous. All loot grinders, since the genre was born, go around the idea death shouldn't be a big issue, except if it happens too frequently.

But all these games had the hardcore option. IMO it's again a bit extreme: I can choose between "die all the times you want, it doesn't matter" to "die once and all your hard work is gone". It doesn't take a genius to see that a middle point would be the best option, but at least these games have this hardcore option. Even in Bioshock, this game where you can kill everything with your melee weapon because you are basically immortal, you had the option to turn off the respawning machines and play a real game.

But here in Borderlands 2 you don't have this option. And what really really bugs me is I get a prize each time I screw it. I got a shotgun that eats 3 bullets for every shot and it burns through ammo really fast, so I constantly find myself taking a bath in the icy water just because it is faster than looking into chests for some bullets.

I have barely played and can't talk about more advanced areas, but my guess is they can't be very exciting. If you are underleveled you die a bazillion times, and what it matters? If you have the right level and equipment you die two or three, and what it matters?

So, what you guys think about this?
#2synthetiksinPosted 10/12/2012 3:49:08 PM
Don't die. If you do, physically punch yourself.

There, problem averted.
#3xfyrenxPosted 10/12/2012 3:52:05 PM
From: jackypacky123 | #001
you had the option to turn off the respawning machines and play a real game

Seriously?

The no penalty for dying thing is for those who aren't that good so they can still enjoy the game and finish it. Those who are good enough don't die that much, so there's really no need for another system.
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#4LokarinPosted 10/12/2012 3:55:54 PM(edited)
The cost of death is, fundamentally (in every game EVER), time. It has always been this in every game. (Ever... for emphasis)

The 10 second respawn and walk-back is an eternity.
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#5MindersPosted 10/12/2012 3:55:07 PM
Well, dying costs money as you said, however it scales with the amount of money you have. I'm loosing about 2 million per death atm, buying bullets is cheaper. Tho as you said, money doesn't really mean anything atm, hopefully there will be some real use for it later.

It also resets bosses so while you can corpse run your way to a boss, unless you can kill it you just wasted time. There's also the run you have to do from the respawn machine.
Then there's respawns of enemies based on time.

So yea, it doesn't really punish you for dying, but it's only really in the first 10 levels dying can be seen as a good thing. I'll admit they should probably have some kind of punishment, like loosing a bit of XP or something but maxing out your levels is fairly easy and then the punishment is gone again. Loosing loot would be devastating and playing multiplayer can really suck if the people you play with want to ruin your game. It's easy to get overwhelmed if someone decides to aggro more than you can handle.

They could add item durability, that could be used as a money sink too I suppose but I'm rather happy they haven't to be honest.
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#6jackypacky123(Topic Creator)Posted 10/12/2012 3:55:39 PM
But there is need for another system: it is not about how many times you die. It's supossed dying is something you must avoid, but the game should give me a reason to avoid it. No, its not me who must punch himself, the devs should find a way to metaphorically punch the player for dying. And instead of the punch I get a "there, there, boyo, have some ammo and kill those guys".
#7Mutant1988Posted 10/12/2012 3:56:14 PM
Lokarin posted...
The cost of death is, fundamentally (in every game EVER), time. It has always been this in every game.

The 10 second respawn and walk-back is an eternity.


This.

Though I do prefer when the health of whatever I was fighting is replenished. Because I do still want some challenge.
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#8StopthinkPosted 10/12/2012 4:01:01 PM
If you use dying as a means of transportation prepare to be bankrupt at lvl 50
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imo for the tight asses
#9jackypacky123(Topic Creator)Posted 10/12/2012 4:03:26 PM
Minders posted...
Well, dying costs money as you said, however it scales with the amount of money you have. I'm loosing about 2 million per death atm, buying bullets is cheaper. Tho as you said, money doesn't really mean anything atm, hopefully there will be some real use for it later.

It also resets bosses so while you can corpse run your way to a boss, unless you can kill it you just wasted time. There's also the run you have to do from the respawn machine.
Then there's respawns of enemies based on time.

So yea, it doesn't really punish you for dying, but it's only really in the first 10 levels dying can be seen as a good thing. I'll admit they should probably have some kind of punishment, like loosing a bit of XP or something but maxing out your levels is fairly easy and then the punishment is gone again. Loosing loot would be devastating and playing multiplayer can really suck if the people you play with want to ruin your game. It's easy to get overwhelmed if someone decides to aggro more than you can handle.

They could add item durability, that could be used as a money sink too I suppose but I'm rather happy they haven't to be honest.


Interesting. When I fought Boom Bewm I didn't notice they regened health, but if they do, that is a good reason to increase your survivability, at least in single player. I didn't know enemies respawn. As far as I saw only the annoying flying ones respawned, and humans remained death, but that is probably only in the starting area.

I know I can't expect a harsh punishment, since I can't think of any loot grinder with serious penalties for dying, and it won't be a game with the motto "fun at all costs" who will implement them. I just thought rewarding the failure was really awkward, but maybe in later stages the money loss is above the ammo gain.
#10chaostdkPosted 10/12/2012 4:04:28 PM
clearly tc has the patience of buddha as he does not care about the trek back to where he died and face enemies whose health have recovered.