Hopefully they "adjust" the Kanji and Yukiko fights...

#41SazukeEX(Topic Creator)Posted 3/30/2012 11:01:30 PM
Fortecross posted...
SazukeEX posted...
No they don't. None of the fighting there prepares you for the Yukiko fight.

No shadows heal at that point, and no shadows have breaks or walls at that point so for a new player those abilities don't exist for them. At least not at that point because they've never seen it or had any Persona cards with those abilities at that point.

Most would still be using Izanagi since it's very early in the game.

Doesn't help that Teddie and later Rise really blow at analyzing enemies. Thus new players have to use trial and error to discover weaknesses.

New players aren't even told that blocking can stop knock downs.


1) Oh yes it does. Teddie already explains to you about weaknesses, skills, and other aspects during the entire fight with Shadow Yosuke. During Yukiko's castle you even fight a mini boss which if you defeat, gives you enough skill to understand the game. HECK, even BEFORE the mini boss there is plenty of enemies you had to run into. A lot of those enemies Izanagi has a reallyyy hard time fighting.

2)Funny, I was very inexperienced and I thought it was really cool to switch Persona. This sentence sounds more like "I found it cool to be using Izanagi". Unless you have proof, stop acting like this magically "majority" is on your side. As you can see this with this thread the majority of people here don't agree with you at all.

3 and 4) That my friend is called exploring the game. Unless you decided to run through Yukiko's castle, you should have been smart enough to see the option that says "block'. When I was new to Persona 4 I noticed the block option right away. Heck, you already had more than enough fights with the random shadows, shadow yosuke, the dream fight, and the mini boss to notice all the fighting options you were given. Unless you are just a guy who likes to click "attack". And don't give me that "majority" crap again.


All of your points are invalid complaints. You seem to love to say "most people", when these "most people" are just really you. I called you ignorant before and you're only proving it more.


Sorry pal but you got no logical backup besides that you aren't taking the time to learn the game.


No, Teddie doesn't. He says "Find it's weakness" and than doesn't even tell you that the first boss in the game is weak to lightning if you use analyze. You're supposed to make that deduction yourself for that boss and every other encounter in the game. Teddie and Rise are worthless and never offer any helpful advice on beating new foes.

You have never been around new players it seems. Or another player at all apparently.

And yet Block doesn't tell you that it prevents knock downs. At no point in the game does it tell you that. It just tells you it reduces damage. Again, you're supposed to learn this though trial and error because like many other aspects of the game you aren't told anything. The series needs quality of life things for new players and needs to adjust the difficulty so it gets harder as the game progresses not super hard at the start, when your options are limited, than super easy after that.

No, your points are the invalid ones. You only think about you and not about others or mass appeal. You should take a class in business, maybe than you would understand even a fragment of what I'm saying since it seems logic is falling on deaf ears with you.
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#42SazukeEX(Topic Creator)Posted 3/30/2012 11:04:49 PM
White_Knight13 posted...
SazukeEX posted...
I'm saying you need to stop thinking with experienced eyes but look at it through the perspective of a new player who has very little explained to them in this game at that point. The lead up to those fights offers no preparation and can easily lead to newer players being stomped by those fights early on in the game.

Appealing to the new player is Final Fantasy's thing.

Atlus, like every other good company, makes games for their fans. They don't want to appeal to the masses, although more sales are nice. Appealing to the masses is great monetarily, but after you do so, you can NEVER appease your fans. (Final Fantasy, Mass Effect, Call of Duty). Atlus makes games for their fans.


Again, you're blind. It doesn't have to be either this or that, it can be both. Blizzard has accomplished that easily and made trillions off making the two work. Those that life in the past will only continue to repeat the same mistakes.

Bioware failed because they tried to be too many things at once. That's not what's at debate here. What's at debate is better explanation for new players, since the game offers none, and adjusting the difficulty to be harder as the game progresses not super hard at the start than derp easy for the rest of the game.
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#43demonsword765Posted 3/30/2012 11:11:34 PM
Atluis may be slightly more popular than before but it's foremost a

niche

company. Just like NISA and XSEED.
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#44SazukeEX(Topic Creator)Posted 3/30/2012 11:26:19 PM
NISA has changed Disgaea for the better, they're fast approaching non-niche status with their flagship title. They've introduced many quality of life things that has ensured the game will only grow in popularity with each new installation into the series.

Playing Disgaea 4 and than jumping back to Disgaea 1 is murder if you already know the story. The improvements are vast and make the series much more enjoyable and has gone a long way to making the series accessible to newer players.
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#45FScellPosted 3/30/2012 11:47:44 PM(edited)
And yet Block doesn't tell you that it prevents knock downs. At no point in the game does it tell you that. It just tells you it reduces damage.

From the first boss..

"HELP
While defending, attacks to your weakness and status ailments can be blocked. But be careful, for you will leave the defensive stance after being hit once."

I really think that sums up all you need to know about guard. Unless you somehow don't equate being knocked down with your weakness being hit. Which would be very strange as the tutorial appears in response to being downed after that happens.
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#46diebuster2Posted 3/30/2012 11:51:05 PM(edited)
On please let this topic die already. No one agrees with the TC. Plus he's a Naruto fanboy/Naruturd for god sakes.
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#47KinectricPosted 3/31/2012 1:16:47 AM
TC, No one agrees with you and you seem to think "new players" are really stupid people, so just stop posting, you won't change anyone's mind.
#48grand_kaizerPosted 3/31/2012 6:35:45 AM
SazukeEX posted...
NISA has changed Disgaea for the better, they're fast approaching non-niche status with their flagship title. They've introduced many quality of life things that has ensured the game will only grow in popularity with each new installation into the series.

Playing Disgaea 4 and than jumping back to Disgaea 1 is murder if you already know the story. The improvements are vast and make the series much more enjoyable and has gone a long way to making the series accessible to newer players.


No. They haven't. They've streamlined systems and added more intuitive gameplay mechanics, but that's every good videogame series ever made ever. If you're not evolving your game to be better then you're not going to survive in the industry. Disgaea now, just like it was then, is still a niche title about grinding until your heart gives out to reach numbers that no longer mean anything because the last boss to be able to take that kind of damage was slain 150 hours ago. Disgaea is very much a niche title that is unashamedly Japanese, and its fanbase is smaller than Atlus'.

Or would you care to actually supplement claims as to how Disgaea has evolved to be more accessible beyond having the attack animations now have a switch to auto-skip?

Enough is enough. You've had solid proof levelled against you on pretty much everything you've said. Persona fusion in encouraged, meaning new players have to be idiots to not see it as not only viable but important. Blocking is explained. Hell, you even argued that it was bad that we had to use the only elemental spell Izanagi has by the time you fight Shadow Yosuke to learn that it was weak to that element, and that it was stupid that the game didn't just tell you. Hell, in P3's system you'd have set it to analyse and unless you were really timid or just totally lacking any sense of trial and error, you'd learn it long before Mitsuo could deduce that yes, it's weak to the only element you can attack with.

You want a game that handholds every step of the way, then you want something other than an Atlus RPG, where trial and error are par for the course. And if you're that averse to trial and error, then I suggest you go out and buy the official strategy guide for life or you're going to be spending a lot of time not doing things because nobody told you how.
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#49DrakoVongola1Posted 3/31/2012 8:53:17 AM
SazukeEX posted...
You have never been around new players it seems. Or another player at all apparently.
.


I started with Persona 3, which is ten times harder than P4, which would have made me a new player. You know how I managed not to rage at the game and quit like you say I should have? I wasn't an idiot, I actually learned how to play the game instead of expecting the game to tell me everything. Go back to Final Fantasy XIII if you want the game to play itself for you.
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#50FortecrossPosted 3/31/2012 3:01:15 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]