It finally hit me why I like the P4 cast so much more then the P3 cast. *spoiler

#81ikilledkenny2Posted 12/6/2012 2:14:00 PM
Then you're just coming to barf your opinion and not listen to anyone else, which is pretty childish >_>
#82WiiFan77Posted 12/6/2012 2:18:50 PM
I thought the P4 cast was more interesting, but the P3 cast was better in every other way. They were much more 3-dimensional.
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#83ArtiRockPosted 12/6/2012 2:24:35 PM
Birth_By_Sorrow posted...
Yu saved Yosuke's ass and saw the worst of him, then accepted him. Who in the right mind would NOT become close friends with him? If you wouldn't, then you are either a loner or don't respect someone who respects you.

Junpei and "Minato" made sense as well. Junpei was never saved by him, and he was a bit jealous of his unusual potential, etc. However, this to me does not create a better dynamic, just a more complex one. And more complex does not necessarily mean better.

Again, the friendships in P4 felt more natural. Everyone I've known, seen etc. hangs out with their friends, goofing around and only occasionally really talk anything serious.

P3 cast, once they finally did become friends, hit you over the head with it, going so far as to say their "friendship" bypassed forced memory loss.

Now, the ending of P4 did hit you over the head with it as well (the silhouettes of the maxed S. Link characters during the Izanami fight was cheesy at best) but the game as a whole lead up to this point under the assumption they were indeed THAT close. P3 did not, it felt tacked on. So at the very least, it made more sense then P3's sudden "clonk to the skull" even if both were inherently cliche.


The type of person that doesn't become friends with someone because they feel that they owe them something. Seeing me at my worst doesn't mean that we need to be friends. Saving your life doesn't entitle friendship. I've been saved before by someone, I'm still not friends with that person. You aren't loner because you don't become friends with someone. It simply gave Yosuke an excuse to finally MAKE a friend.

No one said it was better. The issue is if you preferred one over the other.

The friendships aren't natural in P4. They literally become friends over a murder case, and instead of focusing on the murder, the group of slackers just goof off.

The P3 cast remembered what happened in the end. That was the point of that.

They felt close by the end. That was the entire point. The fact that they felt distance and progressively warmed up to one another speaks miles for the entire theme. Especially because the cast of P3 seemed to have lives outside of each other. The rest of the P4 group are a bunch of loners. You never feel like the new kid because the entire group instantly latches on to you like you are an old friend.
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This is the duty of the Grim Angels.
#84Birth_By_SorrowPosted 12/6/2012 2:33:30 PM
SmashStrike posted...
ikilledkenny2 posted...
If you're just going to ignore when someone posted real instances where the characters show their deep caring for each other I'm not sure why you'd bother going "mc/junpei aigis/yukari so close look at my examples while i ignore yours waaah"


Difference there being, I never said anyone was wrong or that I was right.



Yes you did, LMAO. You said "there were no instances where they seemed truly close." That's stated as though it is FACT. You really have no idea what the difference between "opinion" and "fact" is do you?

I gave you SOLID instances. Yet you ignored them and simply changed the subject. You're not very good at this, are you?

I'm only arguing because YOU ARE THE ONE WHO STATED IT AS IF IT IS FACT. I gave you FACTS to the contrary. There is no opinion about it, they were VERY close and this is evident by every example I gave you. You can't just ignore story events, character interactions, etc. because it suits you. They are there, so your statement claiming they don't exist is false, not opinion.
#85Birth_By_SorrowPosted 12/6/2012 3:03:02 PM
The type of person that doesn't become friends with someone because they feel that they owe them something. Seeing me at my worst doesn't mean that we need to be friends. Saving your life doesn't entitle friendship. I've been saved before by someone, I'm still not friends with that person. You aren't loner because you don't become friends with someone. It simply gave Yosuke an excuse to finally MAKE a friend.

No one said it was better. The issue is if you preferred one over the other.

The friendships aren't natural in P4. They literally become friends over a murder case, and instead of focusing on the murder, the group of slackers just goof off.

The P3 cast remembered what happened in the end. That was the point of that.

They felt close by the end. That was the entire point. The fact that they felt distance and progressively warmed up to one another speaks miles for the entire theme. Especially because the cast of P3 seemed to have lives outside of each other. The rest of the P4 group are a bunch of loners. You never feel like the new kid because the entire group instantly latches on to you like you are an old friend.


Wait, WHAT? It's not because of "owing" anything, it's because they've shown they cared.

Then what to you "entitles" friendship? You are joking right? Someone saves you, accepts you, but you just blow them off? That sounds inconsiderate to me. I can't believe you said this. I would hate to be your friend if I showed that you matter and you just wave it off as though it were nothing.

I don't care which you prefer. If you prefer P3 over P4, fine. I have no quarrel with ANYONE who likes P3 over P4, it's just OPINION. But don't use arguments to back up your opinion that are blatantly FALSE. I've already stated why they are not true here, before, many times and will ATTEMPT to again below.

P3 wasn't gradual. It was, "okay now we're friends and that's enough to remember each other." P4, however, had a series of plot events where they bonded and became closer:

-The school camping trip,
-The power outage at school
-The school trip to the P3 setting
-The culture festival
-The school festival
-Chie and Yu helping Yosuke at work one week
-The concert at Junes
-The skiing trip
-The investigation itself (P3 characters barely discussed events, they just killed first and asked questions later).
-Nanako's hospitalization, where something you even said to admire happened: Yu and Yosuke arguing over whether or not to throw Namatame into the T.V. Not only that, but their resolve as a group thickened, a testament to how much they truly care for one another and Nanako.
-THE SOCIAL LINKS. Where in P3 (other then the females) DID THEY USE SOCIAL LINKS TO TIGHTEN THEIR BONDS?

So how many more examples do you need before you admit that their friendships were MUCH DEEPER DEVELOPED and not just tacked on at the end?

P3 had, what, 2 maybe where that happened? The trip to Mitsuru's estate and... I'm sure there's one more but I can't remember. Your logic is so flawed I can't begin to argue with it because you simply don't get it.


The arguments in this thread are getting ridiculous. You can't refute a single thing I say so you "claim" that the ultimate signs of caring and friendship are not enough to become "friends." You "claim" the ending is to show how they've come together as friends, yet neglect to explain how sudden it was rather then a true developing entity like P4 did with it.

This has become a joke. I'm done. It went from a serious discussion about OPINION to "I'm not going to even justify your opinion, no matter how much it makes sense, because I'm stubborn and a P3/P4 fanboy).

SMH.
#86ArtiRockPosted 12/6/2012 3:43:05 PM
Wait, WHAT? It's not because of "owing" anything, it's because they've shown they cared.

That doesn't make sense. You don't become friends because someone saved you. You said only a loner doesn't. And no, that's not true at all.

Then what to you "entitles" friendship? You are joking right? Someone saves you, accepts you, but you just blow them off? That sounds inconsiderate to me. I can't believe you said this. I would hate to be your friend if I showed that you matter and you just wave it off as though it were nothing.

Exactly what I said. You don't owe them anything. I showed my gratitude, but I'm not going to force myself into their life as a result. It's not inconsiderate, that's what happens. It's not waving it off. But you aren't going to be friends for every person you help. I wouldn't expect that from anyone. You show gratitude for the time, and that's about it.

I don't care which you prefer. If you prefer P3 over P4, fine. I have no quarrel with ANYONE who likes P3 over P4, it's just OPINION. But don't use arguments to back up your opinion that are blatantly FALSE. I've already stated why they are not true here, before, many times and will ATTEMPT to again below.

Yes you do. Because any time someone brings up a point you get angry.

P3 wasn't gradual. It was, "okay now we're friends and that's enough to remember each other." P4, however, had a series of plot events where they bonded and became closer:

No. They spent time in the dorm, you talked to them over the course of the game, you spent time together and occasionally went on trips. That's enough of a friendship.

-THE SOCIAL LINKS. Where in P3 (other then the females) DID THEY USE SOCIAL LINKS TO TIGHTEN THEIR BONDS?

They aren't always needed. That's exactly why I like ho it's done in P3 more. The party members are free to evolve their relationship with the protagonist as the story moves along rather than optional events.

So how many more examples do you need before you admit that their friendships were MUCH DEEPER DEVELOPED and not just tacked on at the end?

It's not gradual. That doesn't change for P4. They just instantly join the group. The only one that had any sort of real awkwardness was Kanji, and that was only with Yosuke.

P3 had, what, 2 maybe where that happened? The trip to Mitsuru's estate and... I'm sure there's one more but I can't remember. Your logic is so flawed I can't begin to argue with it because you simply don't get it.
You don't understand. That isn't a flaw.


This has become a joke. I'm done. It went from a serious discussion about OPINION to "I'm not going to even justify your opinion, no matter how much it makes sense, because I'm stubborn and a P3/P4 fanboy).

No. P3 has better story progression, P4 has better gameplay progression. That is how I've always stood. Even the calender makes more sense for P3. It hinders the story for P4.
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This is the duty of the Grim Angels.
#87ikilledkenny2Posted 12/6/2012 3:58:44 PM(edited)
lmfao p3 does not have better story progression. the main plot doesn't even kick in until like, November. Before that the entire game is just waiting for the next full moon to beat up a big bad shadow then go back to normal lives until the next full moon. P4 in comparison at least has the party figure out clues, form theories and save someone every month or two. There's ALWAYS something happening in P4. P3 has no progression when you beat a full moon shadow, there's no growth or progression; they just go back to the dorm to chill for another month. They're literally in the exact same position after they defeat every shadow except the October and November ones. P4 at least has their team expand and become closer and closer to catching the guy each time. P4 also has many, many more events such as the ski trip, beach trip, culture festival, tatsumi port island visit, camping trip, working with yosuke so on and so forth thrown into the plot.

there is nowhere near the amount of events in P3 as there is in P4, and yes mandatory events count as story progression. P3 is particularly bad in the summer where absolutely NOTHING happens after you get Aigis until school starts.
#88Nightmare637Posted 12/6/2012 3:59:42 PM
^ not to mention having you climb the 100+ floor tower for no reason other than it being there just for it to have relevance at the last month of the game.
#89SparNar607Posted 12/6/2012 4:11:35 PM
ikilledkenny2 posted...
lmfao p3 does not have better story progression. the main plot doesn't even kick in until like, November. Before that the entire game is just waiting for the next full moon to beat up a big bad shadow then go back to normal lives until the next full moon. P4 in comparison at least has the party figure out clues, form theories and save someone every month or two. There's ALWAYS something happening in P4. P3 has no progression when you beat a full moon shadow, there's no growth or progression; they just go back to the dorm to chill for another month. They're literally in the exact same position after they defeat every shadow except the October and November ones. P4 at least has their team expand and become closer and closer to catching the guy each time. P4 also has many, many more events such as the ski trip, beach trip, culture festival, tatsumi port island visit, camping trip, working with yosuke so on and so forth thrown into the plot.

there is nowhere near the amount of events in P3 as there is in P4, and yes mandatory events count as story progression. P3 is particularly bad in the summer where absolutely NOTHING happens after you get Aigis until school starts.


P3's plot up until Nov was to defeat the 12 arcana shadows. November is just when the endgame starts. They don't just chill between anymore than the P4 cast. Matter of fact, they do it less no small part because in the mean time the characters have their own personal struggles in the iterim. So i have no idea what you're talking about when you say they don't grow.

P4 cast make all the halfhearted theories they like. The don't ever have a real suspect. Hell out of all the kidnapped people, only Naoto had anything useful on who could have been the culprit(it's a male). Everyone else didn't know squat.

P4 does have many more events however most if not all are irrelevant to the actual plot. It build them as a team, I agree but does bugger all for helping them catch the killer. The
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"Off you went to call the King, you wish to hear the Devil sing."
#90ikilledkenny2Posted 12/6/2012 4:21:21 PM
It doesn't matter if the events in P4 are more or less relevant to the plot. The story of a game includes every last bit of mandatory text I HAVE to read. From that point of view, P4 is much better paced. There are more events, the characters gather together to talk and discuss things with each other more, they grow as a team and as friends. Even if Persona 3 had a MAJOR TWIST each month (hint: it doesn't) the story would still have worse pacing than P4 because there's almost nothing in between. Sure, you'll get an occasional scene of Junpei talking to Chidori or something but 9 times out of 10 whenever anything happens in P3 it's because of a direct concequence of the boss shadows. Which is only once a month. Whenever the characters grow it's only because of a shadow encounter, and story wise the characters are in the same position after every shadow. Nothing actually changes for the team, and there's almost no events where they grow closer. Persona 4, on the other hand, while the progression of the killer is indeed mainly before and after a kidnapping, they do things in the mean time, and that's where all the side events(which P4 is crammed with) come in.

Next, the story of Persona 4 isn't JUST about finding a killer. Nor is Persona 3 JUST about fighting full moon shadows before things get wacky. If you're looking at either game like this, you're doing it wrong. The game's story is equally about forming bonds, growing as a person, having fun with your friends and enjoying school life. Half of both games has absolutely nothing to do with shadows. And there, once again, P4 completely exceeds P3. The story is just as much about school and having fun as it is solving a mystery/fighting shadows at night, and P4 progresses much better than P3 in that respect.