Weakest MC character in Persona games?

#51Strain42Posted 12/7/2012 7:59:30 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#52darker95Posted 12/7/2012 8:31:36 PM
terran3999999 posted...
Yes, you're friend is correct. Though P4 fanboys will get butthurt by that answer.

There was another "power level" debate topic a while ago that showed a very interesting piece of information:
http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/641695-persona-4-golden/64723542
Please read through the whole topic, it's not even that long, before posting.

This piece of information is also very important:
http://pastebin.com/uiqvLAcV
MASSIVE SPOILERS FOR P2 IS AND EP, READ AT YOUR OWN RISK


Maor spoilers:
Igor outright says a Persona user's power is determined by their ability to maintain one's individuality in the sea of unconsciousness and that Maki's will is so powerful she succeeded the first time. And never mind the fact SMT is eager to shoehorn that the Night Queen is the same thing as Nyx. The P2 team will come second, hell their journey into the unconsciousness was such a picnic to them they had time to argue what would make a good crab sandwich!(wtf?)

So it goes like this:
Godly tier: P1 MC and Maki
Second: Tatsuya and Maya
Third: P3 MC with the Universe Arcana, WHICH IS NOT THE SAME AS THE WORLD ARCANA based on the Persona games. I'm aware of the real Tarot situation.
Fourth: rest/I don't care

Narukami is still alive.
You also forget the fact that none of the P4 team can summon their Persona outside of the TV World if you want to be bias and pick certain information.

Izanami is.
Wrong. Izanami outright says that should humanity give in to their stupid desires again, she and the Midnight Channel will come back with which your team responses "over our dead body" meaning they hope to spread the good side of humanity.


yeah that other guy and me were quoted, I think these kind of topics should be banned for a while they get nowhere.
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#53SparNar607Posted 12/7/2012 10:01:14 PM
You know, using Armageddon doesn't mean the P3 will insta win against any of the other protags if they were to fight. People seem to forget that at the very least, the P4 protag has enduring soul. Would armageddon put the P3 protag ahead of the game a bit? Probably.

If you use gameplay elements to determine if a character can win or not, I could say something like P1/P2 character have access to spells(Nuclear, Zan, Stone status ailment) that aren't used in P3/P4 so they can't be blocked. Also, were are people getting that Death gave the P3 MC the ability to use fusion spells? Fusions spells aren't even remotely referenced in the plot.

But also are we assuming these character stand around and whait for each other to attack?
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#54GSSAGE7Posted 12/7/2012 10:07:09 PM
SparNar607 posted...
If you use gameplay elements to determine if a character can win or not, I could say something like P1/P2 character have access to spells(Nuclear, Zan, Stone status ailment) that aren't used in P3/P4 so they can't be blocked. Also, were are people getting that Death gave the P3 MC the ability to use fusion spells? Fusions spells aren't even remotely referenced in the plot.


Are Nuclear, Zan, and Stone status ailments referenced in the plot? It sounds like you're picking and choosing which gameplay elements work.
#55SparNar607Posted 12/7/2012 10:15:20 PM
GSSAGE7 posted...
SparNar607 posted...
If you use gameplay elements to determine if a character can win or not, I could say something like P1/P2 character have access to spells(Nuclear, Zan, Stone status ailment) that aren't used in P3/P4 so they can't be blocked. Also, were are people getting that Death gave the P3 MC the ability to use fusion spells? Fusions spells aren't even remotely referenced in the plot.


Are Nuclear, Zan, and Stone status ailments referenced in the plot? It sounds like you're picking and choosing which gameplay elements work.


That was my point entirely. People are just picking gameplay elements to say who are stronger ignoring other spells that exist in prior games. Armageddon is appearantly the end all be all despite the fact status ailments work too and so who'd win could be something very arbitrary.

Also I'm legitimately asking about where it was said that Death gave the P3 main fusion spell because otherwise it sounds like prevalent fanon.
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"On and On the road does go, down into the depths below"
"Off you went to call the King, you wish to hear the Devil sing."
#56Zero6798Posted 12/12/2012 9:27:59 AM
Except that P3 and p4's MC need friends in order to even be able to make high level Persona, and in all honesty, arcana means little. Yes, it could be more advantageous to use more arcana, but it's the individual Persona that matter, and how they're used. Yu can have all the Persona he wants, but he still would only be able to hurt Maya with physical based persona, since her ultimate reflects all elemental magic (except probably almighty, I don't know). So he'd actually be pretty limited if him and Maya were to fight.

In terms of their actual accomplishments, Nyarlathotep>>>Nyx and Izanami.

Also, Tatsuya and Maya don't need friends to use high level Persona.


the sealing of nyarlathetep was indeed a much higher feat... costing him his own life. but Gettarou NEVER actually summoned a persona from "the universe" (which to the real tarot decks is the same card as world, but in a different deck, even if igor said it was something hes never seen). he used an ability from the universe, an ability that cost him his waking life (since hes in a coma for now anyway). But he used the power to become a seal, he never used a persona.

thats why i put p4mc > p3mc. using an ability from an arcana to me is not as impressive as actually summoning an arcana, with abilities. ya know?

and as far as p1/2 characters, at the time they were stronger and had lots of power, but we've found that a lack of usage lowers power so theoretically they could be stronger, weaker, or the same depending on. however, as many games we've seen, after all is done, they kinda just stop and go their own ways. with that in mind, trying to summon their persona could cause a reverse effect, as indicated by teddie when he said (not in so many words) that the lack of usage, mental torment, or falling back to a point that you reject yourself, or part of yourself, can turn the persona back to shadows; and become stronger via time as a used persona.

in reality, all MC, should be on the exact same power level.
however, my oppinion is that if you matched each of them at their prime, P1, P4, P2, P3 is the order that i would give them. IMO
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#57OoSubaruoOPosted 12/12/2012 9:40:42 AM
"Having your friends help you doesn't really make you stronger" Is what I'm getting from Kratos.
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#58MidgardDragon99Posted 12/12/2012 11:34:04 AM
I played Persona 1 and I don't remember the MC being particularly powerful.
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#59CrisisOfFatePosted 12/12/2012 1:02:54 PM
Tatsuya(P2)>Minato(P3)>Naoya(P1)>Narukami(P4)
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#60kratoscar2008Posted 12/12/2012 2:24:07 PM
SparNar607 posted...
You know, using Armageddon doesn't mean the P3 will insta win against any of the other protags if they were to fight. People seem to forget that at the very least, the P4 protag has enduring soul. Would armageddon put the P3 protag ahead of the game a bit? Probably.

If you use gameplay elements to determine if a character can win or not, I could say something like P1/P2 character have access to spells(Nuclear, Zan, Stone status ailment) that aren't used in P3/P4 so they can't be blocked. Also, were are people getting that Death gave the P3 MC the ability to use fusion spells? Fusions spells aren't even remotely referenced in the plot.

But also are we assuming these character stand around and whait for each other to attack?


Wrong pal, in Persona 2 in your first fight agaisnt joker your party use fusion spells AND Joker ACKNOWLEDGE THE PARTY USED A FUSION SPELL ON HIM AND NOT ONLY THAT HE THEN SAY THAT IT WAS A WEAK FUSION SPELL meaning that indeed fusion spells cannonicaly exist in the series and that put the P3MC as the sole persona user to ever cast them witouth any other party member.

P3MC can have enduring soul too, to top on that P3MC can use non-elemental fusion spells aside armaggedon not giving Yu any elemental advantage over P3MC as Hassoi Tobbi Narukami strongest attack is physical and the P3MC can null them.

Yu: Power Charge
Minato: Armaggedon
Yu: Survived the attack (Enduring Soul) then hassoi Tobi.
Minato: Block then use Soma
Yu: Desperate Hassoi Tobi
Minato: Block then Armaggedon
Yu: Game Over

Zero6798 posted...
Except that P3 and p4's MC need friends in order to even be able to make high level Persona, and in all honesty, arcana means little. Yes, it could be more advantageous to use more arcana, but it's the individual Persona that matter, and how they're used. Yu can have all the Persona he wants, but he still would only be able to hurt Maya with physical based persona, since her ultimate reflects all elemental magic (except probably almighty, I don't know). So he'd actually be pretty limited if him and Maya were to fight.

In terms of their actual accomplishments, Nyarlathotep>>>Nyx and Izanami.

Also, Tatsuya and Maya don't need friends to use high level Persona.


the sealing of nyarlathetep was indeed a much higher feat... costing him his own life. but Gettarou NEVER actually summoned a persona from "the universe" (which to the real tarot decks is the same card as world, but in a different deck, even if igor said it was something hes never seen). he used an ability from the universe, an ability that cost him his waking life (since hes in a coma for now anyway). But he used the power to become a seal, he never used a persona.

thats why i put p4mc > p3mc. using an ability from an arcana to me is not as impressive as actually summoning an arcana, with abilities. ya know?


To begin Narukami was given Izanagi by Izanami so if it werent for her he couldnt put Izanagui no Okami at all. Second the P3MC arcana is stronger as as the battle progress with Nyx he becomes immune to all damage while Narukami dont . And Imo Izanami and Yu are weaklings compared to their Villain and Protagonist predecessors.