I get that P4 is ultimely the better game, but I still like P3 a bit more

#61Birth_By_SorrowPosted 12/29/2012 5:33:22 PM
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I prefer P3 in just about every way. Just had better everything to me. P4 had improved gameplay upgrades but they weren't significant enough to make it a better game to me. Probably one of the biggest reasons is that the character development was all around more consistent in P3. Even though, it wasn't always amazing, it was consistent. There were characters in P4 that seriously suffered from the plot abandoning character development for "high school shenanigans."


I can agree with this. It is more consistent and involved within the plot. I just don't like how every one of their conflicts is fairly cliche, and not exactly handled with a fresh outtake either.


I like the different characters arcs for different reasons. I like Junpei, Fuuka, and Yukari for feeling so ****ing human, realistic, and relatable. I like Mitsuru, Aigis, and Akihiko for their behaviors and actions after their arcs' climaxes. Mitsuru finally lets go of the ice queen act and starts acting like a real bff with Yukari (see her actions in the Answer), Akihiko stops acting like the cool guy and ends up being one of the silliest P3 characters, and Aigis has to accept and deal with the fact that despite how much she wants to she can't protect everyone she loves and no matter how much she feels human she will never be a human and that's ok. I don't like Ken and Shinjiro so much but again, their arcs were consistent and complete.


P4s issues are realistic too, I hope you know that. I've known people (including myself) that deal with several of them.


Whether or not they did anything meaningful or engaging with those realistic issues is in the eye of the beholder. For me, not so much. Also, not in reference to anything specific about what we're talking about, but realism on its own doesn't really mean squat. If a 10 minute movie was made about a guy going to the bathroom, it'd be super realistic but not so much engaging. Realism is just a means to an end, that end being connecting with the audience so they listen to what you have to say.


I admitted that within the plot (not S.Links) the character development in P3 was better already, in a direct reply to you no less. All I was doing was making sure you're not one of those people who say P4s problems were not realistic, and indeed many people do. It's just an ignorant way of thinking and doesn't do those people who do have those problems any justice.
#62CrimsonmistPosted 12/29/2012 6:42:46 PM
The biggest disadvantage the characters of P4 have are that their development comes to a mostly screeching halt once you have them in your party, the social links further this but as it is not tied directly to the plot this is problematic.

P3 treats what few social links there are for party members (omitting portable) as superfluous, thus focusing on development within the plot itself whenever the main plot of the game isn't happening.

While I do like 4's characters and find them more believable as individuals and as a whole I cannot deny 3's integration, but in that same breath I also say 3's attempt at this is slipshod in part due to the fact in the long run the characters' motivations mean nothing come the end, one could also apply this to 4 but as 4 doesn't ram this into the plot beyond HERE IS A NEW PERSON FOR YOUR PARTY it becomes less of an issue in that regard. So what it comes down to is while one made an effort and one didn't, the effort that was made was a failure in my eyes, as such shouldn't have been made at all.

I would have probably been more accepting of 3's approach had the game structure been different, had the story been paced as in P1 and 2 and character scenes progressed in a timely fashion as in say P2 EP, this would likely have worked all the better.
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#63FlareKnightsPosted 12/29/2012 7:05:25 PM
Coming to the topic, I just enjoy P4 more. I do like aspects of P3 though and like the contrast between how they went about things. The technology side was kind of interesting with P3. The surveillance within the dorm, Mitsuru's crazy communication equipment, the Evokers themselves, etc. It all worked well with the tone of the story.

Of course in the end, I just keep coming back to P4. Liked the concept of the characters having to face themselves like that. I just liked them more as people and a group. All these people really had a personal stake in the case. Either as kidnapped individuals or friends of those who were kidnapped. I mean sure I would have loved to see more of the character development happen with the main plot. Either changing some dialogue depending on where you were with the social links or just making the development more in the story and less optional. Would have been nice to have it line up better.

Still, I liked how something was always going on. You were dealing with a kidnapping, or thinking about the case, or looking ahead to the next big event (test, camp out, festival, etc). While I'm going nuts over the various social links, there is always something coming up. Plus I liked how the social links or invitations mixed characters together. Spending time with the guys and then Nanako would come into the scene. Things just felt interconnected.

Not down on P3, but just saying why I liked P4 more. Enjoyed a lot of things in both games.
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#64Quiet_NoisePosted 12/30/2012 1:25:23 PM
TL;DR because this is another huge wall that likely no one wants to read so w/e.

P3 was a game where

spoilers in my post again, this is the only one I'm blanking so consider it your warning to stop reading if you aren't caught up with the series

a dog saves your entire party's life while you're tied to crucifixes.

I didn't want to break this argument out, as it's simply unfair and can't be challenged, but you forced my hand. I'm sorry. :P

Honestly, a couple of things kind of tip the scale; parents dead is a major cliche, but it's so much preferable to P4 where they don't even call you. I posted a topic about a week ago and I get that Yu's dad works a lot but come on, you're telling me your mom wouldn't call you if she found out the town you were living in was the source of serial murders? I have no idea why this bothers me so much, but the absolute disconnect Yu has from his hometown, how he's such a blank slate ... it's harder to accept? I have no idea. I only know it aggravates me. I feel like this was either an oversight, or a missed opportunity. P4's animation in which he confronts his own shadow, and that was great, but even that could have went into a little more detail.

Yuki and Chie develop for the first six hours of the game and then we watch a social link that involves Yuki doing a complete 180 that implies she wouldn't have even dealt with a shadow self if she had been given time, and Chie who never again brings the question of her doubts about why she feels the way she does toward Yuki.

Kanji's a phenomenal character. A late friend of mine said, "his story's heavy-handed, but then again, so is the entire freaking game and I still liked it...so I don't really see it as a flaw." I miss him. :/

So what am I going on about? Up to this point, the characters I can understand having a compatible relationship.

But then you're telling me an emotionally volatile super star and a self-confused yet stoic detective mesh with the group?

That's almost as bad as adding a dog and a child to the story!

TL;DR:
I suppose I'm just ranting with this post. I think P3 was actually quite funny in many parts.

But P4 feels like it's full of wacky hijinks around every corner, you know? P3 has them, but they're so far and few between, and nowhere near the same level. P3 has Junpei's talking like an idiot with a flash light, whereas P4 has a fat girl breaking your motorcycle scooter with an over dramatized fall to the knees. It's lighter. That doesn't mean cheerier, or brighter, or less mature...it's just lighter. For some reason, this caused me to become more invested into P3's world and characters.

Both stories have essentially the same faults, they're just presented differently.
#65akaKLeoPosted 12/30/2012 2:52:42 PM
I think the characters, story and soundtrack are a lot better in P3 than P4. The Social Links in P3 are 100 times better than the Social Links in P4. P4's were so boring. I don't understand why so many people like P4 over P3.
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#66Kumori_no_YoruPosted 12/30/2012 2:56:36 PM
Honestly, both games are next to identical that it just comes down to which one you prefer in terms of presentation.

I grew to like P4 more, but it's because the Social Links were more favorable in my book. I can see why people prefer P3 in that there was more focus on the story, however.
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#67CrimsonmistPosted 12/30/2012 3:41:49 PM(edited)
Quiet_Noise posted...

a dog saves your entire party's life while you're tied to crucifixes.


Yeah. I loved that the party member I avoided using out of spite because it was an animal in my JRPG for the sake of fulfilling the animal party member trope saved the day.

But then you're telling me an emotionally volatile super star and a self-confused yet stoic detective mesh with the group?


That's almost as bad as jamming a dog and a child to the story, MAYBE EVEN A ROBOT RASPUTIN! Totally.

But really, I also found them to be odd choices to be involved with the main cast.

But then I remembered in P3 I was "ASSOCIATED" with the heir to a group of major corporations, a robot, a dog, a kid acting past his age. All of which according to "The Answer" had an unbreakable bond with the MC. So if they can somehow count as meshing in, the annoying idol and killjoy detective are believable by that scale.

Never mind P1 had the whole FRIENDS WITH SUPER RICH HEIR TO CORPORATIONS in Kei Nanjo, and budding model interested in the occult with Eriko.

Even then we are going based off status alone when discussing this, if we go by character interactions beyond professions even if forced I find Rise and Naoto fit in more than well enough.

Look, if you want to say P3 is better, that is fine. But can everyone that loves it a super huggy bunch please at least stop bringing up points that P3 is just as guilty if not moreso for.

P4 is equally guilty for several things: inadequate absent parents, poor development beyond characters joining the group, mediocre social links beyond the party (equally bad to me in P3). The only thing I can say P4 is guilty for is having more filler (just as other days are comprised of plot in both P3 and 4), but I'd rather have that than free days where essentially nothing happens. Then we have the debatable issue in the knowckdown system in 4 (personally have no issue with this but since everything needs to at least match Nocturne's difficulty apparently...), and what I do actually dislike the lack of fusion skills.

Really what I would like that both P3 and P4 fail at is improved pacing which is the mess social links and the calendar system have caused. I don't mind downtime between party members and in fact welcome it but if the majority of the game is spent with not much happening unless the player seeks it out with social links or grinding then that is an inherent problem with the current structure of the games.

I hope Persona 5 improves on this. I'm not saying I want a return to Persona 1 and 2's pacing, but I hope this mandatory PLOT HAPPENS ONLY ON THIS DATE thing dies off and it is altered depending on the pace the player goes. Keeping the calendar system and social links, but being less rigid with: "NEXT FULL MOON BRAH, CAN'T CLIMB THE TOWER YET. GOTTA WAIT FOR FRIEND X TO BE OKAY"

Edit:
On dead parents as I deleted what I originally wrote when typing this, it would likely be awkward inserting communication to the MC in P4 from his family abroad frequently and many would count it as annoying. If only for holidays or a mandatory birthday that would also be jarring. Now what I do think should have happened is late game Involving Nanako he should have called around them to vent or at least the option to do so be given and to recount the events of hte game to that point. In any other instance I do not feel it would work.
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#68Birth_By_SorrowPosted 12/30/2012 3:30:56 PM
Crimsonmist posted...
That's almost as bad as jamming a dog and a child to the story, MAYBE EVEN A ROBOT RASPUTIN! Totally.

But really, I also found them to be odd choices to be involved with the main cast.

But then I remembered in P3 I was "ASSOCIATED" with the heir to a group of major corporations, a robot, a dog, a kid acting past his age. All of which according to "The Answer" had an unbreakable bond with the MC. So if they can somehow count as meshing in, the annoying idol and killjoy detective are believable by that scale.

Never mind P1 had the whole FRIENDS WITH SUPER RICH HEIR TO CORPORATIONS in Kei Nanjo, and budding model interested in the occult with Eriko.

Even then we are going based off status alone when discussing this, if we go by character interactions beyond professions even if forced I find Rise and Naoto fit in more than well enough.

Look, if you want to say P3 is better, that is fine. But cane veryone that loves it a super huggy bunch please at least stop bringing up points that P3 is just as guilty if not moreso for.

P4 is equally guilty for several things: inadequate absent parents, poor development beyond characters joining the group, mediocre social links beyond the party (equally bad to me in P3). The only thing I can say P4 is guilty for is having more filler (just as other days are comprised of plot in both P3 and 4), but I'd rather have that than free days where essentially nothing happens. Then we have the debatable issue in the knowckdown system in 4 (personally have no issue with this but since everything needs to at least match Nocturne's difficulty apparently...), and what I do actually dislike the lack of fusion skills.

Really what I would like that both P3 and P4 fail at is improved pacing which is the mess social links and the calendar system have caused. I don't mind downtime between party members and in fact welcome it but if the majority of the game is spent with not much happening unless the player seeks it out with social links or grinding then that is an inherent problem with the current structure of the games.

I hope Persona 5 improves on this. I'm not saying I want a return to Persona 1 and 2's pacing, but I hope this mandatory PLOT HAPPENS ONLY ON THIS DATE thing dies off and it is altered depending on the pace the player goes. Keeping the calendar system and social links, but being less rigid with: "NEXT FULL MOON BRAH, CAN'T CLIMB THE TOWER YET. GOTTA WAIT FOR FRIEND X TO BE OKAY"


While reading some of the new responses, it's becoming a lot clearer now why some prefer P3 over P4 (which is all I've been asking for this whole time. Try not to read into things so much and read at face value, not what it may "seem" I'm trying to say).

The P3 characterization (while a bit more cliche and not as well thought out imo) was decently speckled throughout the plot. That is a positive thing as opposed to P4s method of dropping conflicts outside of S.Links.

I agree with this poster. Each game has it's flaws (in both characterization and plot). I agree with the person who said that he prefers filler over almost nothing happening for a whole month (like much of P3 is). That's preference however, and I can see why people might prefer more gameplay time to do whatever they choose.

Indeed, I think the Calendar system is wearing thin. I hope there is a bit more leeway in future titles and you are able to move along the plot at your own pace (even if it's just a "skip all days" option).

It's finally clear, that's all I wanted. Thank you.
#69DukeCoudrayPosted 12/31/2012 4:05:37 AM
Both Casts were excellent, and both stories kept you wanting more. But what i like about P4 more than P3 is that you see more of your main cast.

For instance, In P3 only one moment really stands out to me where the whole group gets together and it has nothing to do with the Midnight Hour, And thats the Beach Scene. And even then they gotta lay some S#$% about the mission. After that its pretty much just ignore each other til the next mission.

What i liked about P4 was how there were so many moments that brought some levity to the cast. Like watching the guys get screwed by the girls over and over, Damn that mystery food X! It wasnt just about the Midnight Channel in every scene. Which made me enjoy this game more.

Sure there were stand out characters in P3 like Akihiko and Yukari, but other then them.

Rise>Fuuka
Fox>Koromaru
Yosuke>Junpei
Main Character 4 > Main Character 3