If they took out the japanese honorifics...

#101deathpapayaPosted 1/28/2013 2:12:07 PM
Why should I listen to the trolling demands of a troll?
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Steam: Emophia PS3: Emophia Vita: Kitikat XBL: Genophia
#102monkeypahngPosted 1/28/2013 2:19:25 PM(edited)
deathpapaya posted...
Why should I listen to the trolling demands of a troll?


Because context dictates so. Since your sentence is making the implication that the chair is insignificant, which may or not be. But seeing as how it's your opinion you should clearly state it.

You know, for someone who accuses someone of being a troll, you sure love to "feed" the person you're accusing of being a bad troll. Therefore leading to a contradiction on your part. That is, if we assume you were right in the first place, which it isn't. So you should fix all your other posts as well.
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#103deathpapayaPosted 1/28/2013 2:26:01 PM
I can't help but want to converse with trolls.

It's my compassionate side.
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Steam: Emophia PS3: Emophia Vita: Kitikat XBL: Genophia
#104SkaldskaparmalPosted 1/28/2013 6:34:06 PM
Kotetsu posted...
People don't talk like that.


To be honest, I agree with this. Nobody really calls their brother figure "big bro" in English. Don't really see the problem with "grampa" though, since there are about ten different synonyms for "grandfather" in English.

Now, having said that, if they started using "oniichan" or "ojiichan", I would flat out refuse to buy the game or buy it used, just so that god awful kind of localization would not get one penny out of my pocket.
#105Kite91Posted 1/28/2013 7:30:29 PM
You're both acting like children. Man, people will argue over anything now-a-days.
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#106EmiHinataPosted 1/28/2013 8:15:51 PM
Chaos_Missile posted...


You're falling into the trap that plagues all translators: keeping Nana-chan is a translation. Changing it to "Nancy" is a localisation.

People, for some odd reason, always gets confused about this.

Revelations: Persona was a localisation. Persona 1 Portable was a translation.


No. If they changed anything around in P1P to make it more understandable to Western gamers--as they did with the quiz questions in P4, for instance--that is still a localization. ATLUS is a localizing company, not a translating one; the lines are not the exact same thing from the English to the Japanese, instead only keeping the meaning and intent of what is being said.

I like that the honorifics are kept in for the fact that they help to show how the cast grows together over the course of the game. That being said, from a gamer perspective (rather than one of being interested in Japanese culture), they come off as awkward-sounding in dialogue. Using "senpai" and such, I feel, is a lot less awkward; keeping (and possibly changing?) the -kun/-chan stuff works to show relationships but sounds strange.

I don't understand the argument of "oh, they're keeping them in for fans, because people wouldn't buy it anyway and ATLUS isn't targeting them." They're targeting as wide an audience as possible--that's why, for instance, we have English voice acting. Yes, they're widely interested in catering to their fans and that kind of audience, but they're going to put things/take things out to appeal to more potential customers.
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#107Chagen46Posted 1/29/2013 3:00:39 PM
Skaldskaparmal posted...
Kotetsu posted...
People don't talk like that.


To be honest, I agree with this. Nobody really calls their brother figure "big bro" in English. Don't really see the problem with "grampa" though, since there are about ten different synonyms for "grandfather" in English.

Now, having said that, if they started using "oniichan" or "ojiichan", I would flat out refuse to buy the game or buy it used, just so that god awful kind of localization would not get one penny out of my pocket.


People may not use "big bro" in real life, but it fits for the game and the world. I like it as a translation.
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#108araxenPosted 1/30/2013 2:40:35 PM
autogun290 posted...
I would miss Rise saying "Oohh sempai, you really get me going...."... :P


This...
#109regularsharpPosted 1/31/2013 9:30:50 PM
Ooooh this question puts me in a strange place. I feel like it has a pretty straight forward answer, but I also think that any answer I give has a near 100% chance of being misunderstood. I'll try anyway, though...

First off, I'm someone who generally watches anime subbed with a Japanese voice track. When I say that, a natural assumption is that I'm just like all the other weebos who clamor on and on about how horrible English voice actors are and cum in their pants when Rie Kugimiya tsuns a sweet nothing through their headphones.

That's wrong. I prefer the Japanese track because most of the time I feel the lines sound REALLY corny in a language I'm fluent in, even if the lines are said properly. So basically, I treat the voice track as a means to deliver the unspoken emotions you feel from a voice's tone and apply it to what I'm reading. I'm fine with certain anime, though. I watched Full Metal Alchemist dubbed without a problem, but you couldn't PAY me to sit through Bakemonogatari dubbed.

Don't get it? Neither do I, and whether or not any of this useless information is relevant to what I think about Persona 4, even I don't know, but still, I feel the need to put it out there.

So, Persona 4. It's a mess. The translation is more like a semi-localization, and to anyone arguing that the honorifics should stay to keep the integrity of the relationships, I'd like to point out that how the characters address each other has already been localized. Pseudo-localized, rather.

For instance, right at the beginning of the game, Yosuke addresses Yukiko as 'Yukiko-san'... but in the Japanese dialog, he actually says 'Amagi' with no honorifics. The idea here is that it's not natural in an English speaking environment to call someone by their family name, and it's somewhat sarcastic sounding, which I understand... but if we're establishing that "hey, they're in Japan" and "hey, they use honorifics in Japan" then I think "hey, in Japan, it's not proper to address an acquaintance by their given name" is a perfectly logical progression THAT WAS ALREADY ESTABLISHED IN PERSONA 3.

I don't know, maybe it's just me, but it just strikes me as odd that Atlus would think that Yosuke saying 'Yukiko-san' is in any way more natural than him saying 'Amagi', while keeping in mind that at some level, Atlus is assuming anyone playing this game has seen a few anime or read a few manga. It's baffling.

Strangely enough, he then proceeds to say "Miss Satonaka", with the Japanese dialog saying "Satonaka-san". I don't have a problem with that, mind you, as this is more a translation of intent, which is probably the best way to describe this game's translation as a whole. (Just out of curiosity, I loaded up a save file with the in-game date of 3/20, and found that even at the end of the journey, Yosuke still addresses Yukiko as 'Amagi' and also addresses her as such all throughout the anime. He never changes the way he formally addresses her like he does in the English version of the game.)

I guess what I'm getting at is, anyone saying 'keep the honorifics' for the sake of maintaining the construct of relationships within a Japanese society, great, but know what it is you're defending.

All THAT said, I don't have that much of a problem with the use of honorifics persay, but a problem with the execution. Yeah, I kinda gag when I hear an English speaker say 'san', but I deal with it. Words like sensei don't even register as honorifics for me in this particular game, since it's rarely, if ever, used as one. I also feel how it's used is appropriate, even with a 'common man' understanding of the word.

California potato powers? Yes, please. (Side note: My spell checker wants to change Satonaka to skank and stinky. This pleases me immensely.)
#110autogun290Posted 2/1/2013 8:14:42 PM
araxen posted...
autogun290 posted...
I would miss Rise saying "Oohh sempai, you really get me going...."... :P


This...


I know right...gawd. I kinda fanboy squeal when she says that. :P