If they took out the japanese honorifics...

#41SicianPosted 1/26/2013 11:22:49 PM
FScell posted...
Sician posted...
How would they handle MC though? Partner by everyone? Older student guy? He is 'you', after all, and has no set name. Honorifics are there so the characters don't have to address you by name.


I think they should handle by giving the character a name and killing silent protagonists.


A little unsure on how much Japan likes their SMT silent protags. Would they be disappointed if Hitoshura or p3mc suddenly spoke? We don't talk about the one obvious outlier named P2.
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#42FScellPosted 1/26/2013 11:26:49 PM
There's actually a reason for him to be silent, as an avatar for the player and as a representative of The Fool (Endless Possibilitie). Meaning that he can take any form he wants. ATLUS does well in this regard.


I find them to be tremendous failures when it comes to serving as a player stand in. That concept only works on something you create and have more control over.

Would they be disappointed if Hitoshura or p3mc suddenly spoke?


It might make them seem interesting, which would be somewhat stunning I suppose.
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#43SolKarellenPosted 1/26/2013 11:39:11 PM
FScell posted...
There's actually a reason for him to be silent, as an avatar for the player and as a representative of The Fool (Endless Possibilitie). Meaning that he can take any form he wants. ATLUS does well in this regard.


I find them to be tremendous failures when it comes to serving as a player stand in. That concept only works on something you create and have more control over.

Would they be disappointed if Hitoshura or p3mc suddenly spoke?


It might make them seem interesting, which would be somewhat stunning I suppose.


Name; Narukami Yu
Race: Asian
Class: Swagnamimous
Birth Sign: The Warrior
Major Attributes: Endurance, Charisma
Major Skills: Two-Handed Swords, Speechcraft, Cooking.
Minor Skills: Basketball, Bass Guitar, Gardening, Fishing.
Traits: New Kid (Initial Disposition Lowered with all NPCs; Disposition Gains Increased), Because They Look Cool (-1 Perception without glasses; +2 Perception and +2 Charisma with them).
Perks: Wild Card (Enables Persona Switching), Persona Fusion (Enables Persona Fusion), "Don't admit Fault" (Date everyone!).
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#44FScellPosted 1/26/2013 11:40:59 PM
I'm sorry you've lost me at the swag meme.
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What can change the nature of a man?
#45SolKarellenPosted 1/26/2013 11:42:36 PM
FScell posted...
I'm sorry you've lost me at the swag meme.


Used it once. That's the permissible use.
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"There'd come a time when life'd pull us apart. S'not a reason to avoid people."
#46mer2329Posted 1/27/2013 1:47:12 AM
keep them
it shows they are trying to keep the localization to a minimum and mainly do translation
and it is a Jrpg
as in Japanese role-playing game

if they remove them why not remove all references to japanese culture and completely Americanize it (or gear it for europe or other release area)
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#47Chaos_MissilePosted 1/27/2013 3:09:59 AM
mistermikeymike posted...
perfectchaos83 posted...
That's the point of localization. This isn't Japanese, it's English. Finding a workaround is the point, the script writers are just lazy.

There's a difference between bad localization and design choice. If it were, say, a Final Fantasy game with honorifics, I would say it is lazy localization. In this game you essentially live the life of a Japanese High School Student with part of the story heavily based upon your relationship with others. Look at Kanji for example, he looks all tough and rude, but deep down he is an extremely respectable guy and him calling the others Senpai shows it. There is no real way to translate that in a way that doesn't sound weird in English.

Now look at Teddie and him calling you sensei, Seeing as how Teddie views Yu as a mentor he calls him as such. In English You can say He is my mentor, but you would not refer to your mentor as simply "Mentor." Then there's also how he addresses Nanako as Nana-Chan. Nana doesn't roll off the tongue and it isn't exactly a cutesy name in English. In general I would assume that a cutesy name for Nanako would be difficult to find. hence the Use of Chan.

For all intents and purposes, they are building an atmosphere by using the honorifics. They want you to feel as close to the Japanese country side as possible.


honestly the kanji thing can be done with how they speak. if you wanted kanji to be a thug he would speak like a stereotypical thug

as for nanako you can easily change nanakos name to something that flows off the tongue easy. like nancy or something.


You're falling into the trap that plagues all translators: keeping Nana-chan is a translation. Changing it to "Nancy" is a localisation.

People, for some odd reason, always gets confused about this.

Revelations: Persona was a localisation. Persona 1 Portable was a translation.

Samurai Pizza Cats was a localisation, not a translation.

In America, do you call your elders "hey, senior!" "Teacher!" "Boss!"

I've experience being in Western-environments and you guys DO NOT address your elders aside from your parents. And even THAT varies.
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#48Ray Ledgend 46Posted 1/27/2013 5:29:34 AM
Topic's a couple of pages long, so I'm not sure what I could really add to the discussion at this point that hasn't at least been touched on, but here's what I've got. I think it would be better off without the honorifics, for a few reasons.

First, I think for a Western audience, the honorifics add little, and can even make the experience worse. For example, I sometimes play these story based games with my little sister, who has had pretty much no exposure to any of this Japanese, anime terminology. We like to enjoy the story together and whatever =P Anyway, when we started playing P4, she just thought the honorifics sounded silly. She couldn't take the writing as seriously, at least at first, because the honorifics were too jarring. In a lot of ways, I think people like her are more the face of the Western audience, rather than people who know the anime culture.

Some in this topic have argued that the honorifics get across character respect or some other significance, but I would argue this only applies to people who already have knowledge of what the honorifics mean. Like, going back to my little sis again, she got confused at first when people referred to people other than MC as "Senpai" 'cause she just assumed it was our nickname. The honorifics do unarguably hold some value to those who understand them, but a game like this can't interrupt the player every time an honorific comes up just to explain it, so for those who don't know anything about Japanese culture, it doesn't add anything of worth, it's just a cultural block.

Plus, I understand Persona caters pretty heavily to the anime crowd, but I feel that even to people who know what the honorifics mean, the significance is not often viscerally apparent. I mean, I know they confer respect intellectually, but the word Senpai, for example, holds no value to me because I don't come from that culture.

Plus, I feel like it's kind of a localizer's job to do the best they can to translate the original intent, while still operating within the confines of a single language =P It may not be easy, but a full localization is, at least in my opinion, a more professional, and again, viscerally satisfying product than one that leaves in such cultural roadblocks as honorifics just because there's no easy substitute.

So, in short I'm against honorifics because
1. I feel it hurts the game in terms of achieving wider appeal.
2. I don't think the visceral significance translates to very many in the west, even to people who intellectually understand them.
3. In my personal opinion, leaving such things in is unprofessional.

But, I have to admit, the honorifics are just a downright perfect solution for what people should call the main character =P
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#49kratoscar2008Posted 1/27/2013 7:57:10 AM
Ray Ledgend 46 posted...
but the word Senpai, for example, holds no value to me because I don't come from that culture.


well how they would explain then the cultural days and such witouth diminishing the japanese feel? This is not like subbed anime were people are nice enough to add an explanation with the sub.
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#50Darky1992(Topic Creator)Posted 1/27/2013 8:19:25 AM
Ray Ledgend 46 posted...

So, in short I'm against honorifics because
1. I feel it hurts the game in terms of achieving wider appeal.
2. I don't think the visceral significance translates to very many in the west, even to people who intellectually understand them.
3. In my personal opinion, leaving such things in is unprofessional.


Dude, are you me?
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