Anyone feel like the main story was kinda poor? *bigspoilers*

#1mistermikeymikePosted 2/4/2013 7:57:07 PM
So you're a transfer student. meet some friends. couple early murders. game draws you in because it's interesting since the midnight channel is linked to the murders.

The beginning is perfectly fine and you know, it's a typical beginning as far as video games go (exciting beginning to draw in players)

But then you get like 10 months of pointless kidnappings that lead you nowhere. no clues. no hints. no foreshadowing. like if you took out those 10 months of kidnappings, the story would most likely lose nothing vital. the story would be the same with 1 kidnapping as it was with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. The kidnapping were really drawn on and really just delayed the story without actually adding to the story. Though that's not really something you can blame a game for since in order for it to have any sort of playtime some things are going to have to be a bit drawn out. My problem with this is that despite being drawn out, it offers very little of substance to the overall story.

Namatame comes in and the writers really should have introduced him early seeing as he technically would be a major suspect. He's the delivery guy right? Have him ring the doorbell and say hi, before dropping off a package. Maybe when he delivers your package from tanaka have him give it to you.

And then Adachi. It literally felt like they made 95% of the game, closed their eyes and picked Adachi to be the killer. you would think that a game whose premise is a murder mystery would leave behind clues/motives/other forms of foreshadowing. Furthermore they completely changed who adachi is. If you were gonna make adachi the symbol of emptiness then f***ing hint at it. i mean you literally could have taken any character in the series and said this person is the killer. they were just putting on a mask but secretly was empty inside.

Frankly i was disappointed that adachi was the killer. sure he's there and always around you. but for the party to assume adachi is the killer is the biggest leap of faith you could make. he literally has no evidence against him. hell teddie would have been a better killer than adachi. found in a random place. is clearly hiding something. stays with the party the whole game so he can keep tabs on them. acts just as innocent as adachi. always seems to know where the kidnapped people are. just throw in a hidden misogynistic attitude and teddie is the real killer.
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#2solidoutlawPosted 2/4/2013 8:01:06 PM
My problem wasn't Adachi being the killer. It was his motives. He was just bored? That's it? I was hoping that he was more directly involved with the TV world. That his intentions wouldn't be so black and white.
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#3SmashStrikePosted 2/4/2013 8:14:54 PM(edited)
I thought it was good. They needed to show the characters "figuring crap out." A good mystery needs buildup and forming bonds with people is a important thing in this game (it's literally the only reason you win against the final boss) so they needed to introduce more party members. Sure there's padding and it could have been done smoother but hey, nothing's perfect.

As for Adachi, yeah I see what you're saying. I remember a rumor on the vanilla board that Adachi wasn't originally intended to be the killer. Can't remember the details or the level of legitimacy behind that rumor though. Personally, I always thought Ms. Kashiwagi would have made an interesting killer.

She constantly shows contempt for other rival women. She could have been a fan of Misuzu Hiragi (being a famous "slightly older woman" like herself) and killed Ms. Yamano for ruining Hiiragi's life. She could of had contempt for Saki for flirting with the manager's son of the store that was destroy local business. She could have easy been green with envy over Yukiko's popularity. She could have had a crush on "older biker gang member" Kanji but then heard the rumors of him being gay and got angry. We know for a fact she loathes Rise. She could have easily seduced a loser like Mitsuo, using him to kill Morooka so she could keep a closer eye on the IT who she knew was interfering. She could have come on to the cool as hell Naoto and been shot down as hard as the girls who hit on Naoto on her first day. Kashiwagi could have very easily have been an interesting case study of an older woman who's been continually rejecting by men solely because she's slightly older than all these jailbate sluts running around Inaba.
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#4DynamicJumpIuffPosted 2/4/2013 8:16:57 PM
It was a terrible mystery.
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#5Rogue_ThoughtsPosted 2/4/2013 8:27:16 PM
While the story really isn't my favorite, I seem to dislike for different reasons than everyone else.

A lot of people complain that the main bosses (Amono-Sagiri, Adachi, and Izanami) felt shoe-horned in. To me, they fit in perfectly with the theme of the game. The game beats you over the head with the "truth" theme, and showing the player that there's always more to look for fits in with that. It's like what Adachi says during his dungeon: "And what would happen if you turn me in? Everyone would just accept it as their truth and move on. Nothing about them would change." (paraphrasing, I can't remember exactly what was said). Before you face these bosses, you have quite a few opportunities to accept what you know as truth and leave things be. Hopefully by this point in the game, you've learned that the truth isn't different for everyone, and you always need to be searching for the absolute truth. Especially when everyone (even the game) tells you everything's fine, and you should be happy and move on.
#6Nightmare637Posted 2/4/2013 8:30:36 PM
Adachi? you chose Adachi as your main complaint? if anything it was to obvious that it was him.

now izanami theres someone you could make an argument for.
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#7perfectchaos83Posted 2/4/2013 9:00:44 PM(edited)
Both Mitsuo and Namatame appear in the shopping district and sometimes the river saying foreshadowy things.

Adachi's whole character could also be attributed to being foreshadowy that something is amiss. Especially since it always seems like he's egging you on, no matter how much of an idiot he appears to be, leaking that much information seems intentional on his part. Also, good foreshadowing is retroactive. If you were able to guess what is being foreshadowed then it's like giving the spoilers away.

If you were gonna make adachi the symbol of emptiness then f***ing hint at it.

IIRC That's what the first 6 ranks of his S Link are supposed to emphasize. From what I heard anyway. Literally nothing is going on with his life and his biggest problem is some old lady who treats him like her son. Granted this means nothing to the original since his S Link was not there. There's also the Fact that his Arcana shares the same number as Fool, 0.

Frankly i was disappointed that adachi was the killer. sure he's there and always around you. but for the party to assume adachi is the killer is the biggest leap of faith you could make. he literally has no evidence against him. hell teddie would have been a better killer than adachi. found in a random place. is clearly hiding something. stays with the party the whole game so he can keep tabs on them. acts just as innocent as adachi. always seems to know where the kidnapped people are. just throw in a hidden misogynistic attitude and teddie is the real killer.

Except for the fact that Teddie is suspicious as all hell. The whole point of 12/5 was that this person was not suspicious and is able to be around both victims without suspicion. The only way he wouldn't arouse suspicion is if he pulled them when they were in front of the TV, And If so, how exactly would he know when they were there in the first place to grab them? As far as we know, he can't see into our world from his. Nor is there any evidence that he can get out of the TV world before obtaining his body.
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#8Niyel7Posted 2/4/2013 8:55:05 PM
mistermikeymike posted...
So you're a transfer student. meet some friends. couple early murders. game draws you in because it's interesting since the midnight channel is linked to the murders.

The beginning is perfectly fine and you know, it's a typical beginning as far as video games go (exciting beginning to draw in players)

But then you get like 10 months of pointless kidnappings that lead you nowhere. no clues. no hints. no foreshadowing. like if you took out those 10 months of kidnappings, the story would most likely lose nothing vital. the story would be the same with 1 kidnapping as it was with 1, 2, 3, 4, 5. The kidnapping were really drawn on and really just delayed the story without actually adding to the story. Though that's not really something you can blame a game for since in order for it to have any sort of playtime some things are going to have to be a bit drawn out. My problem with this is that despite being drawn out, it offers very little of substance to the overall story.

Namatame comes in and the writers really should have introduced him early seeing as he technically would be a major suspect. He's the delivery guy right? Have him ring the doorbell and say hi, before dropping off a package. Maybe when he delivers your package from tanaka have him give it to you.

And then Adachi. It literally felt like they made 95% of the game, closed their eyes and picked Adachi to be the killer. you would think that a game whose premise is a murder mystery would leave behind clues/motives/other forms of foreshadowing. Furthermore they completely changed who adachi is. If you were gonna make adachi the symbol of emptiness then f***ing hint at it. i mean you literally could have taken any character in the series and said this person is the killer. they were just putting on a mask but secretly was empty inside.

Frankly i was disappointed that adachi was the killer. sure he's there and always around you. but for the party to assume adachi is the killer is the biggest leap of faith you could make. he literally has no evidence against him. hell teddie would have been a better killer than adachi. found in a random place. is clearly hiding something. stays with the party the whole game so he can keep tabs on them. acts just as innocent as adachi. always seems to know where the kidnapped people are. just throw in a hidden misogynistic attitude and teddie is the real killer.


Agreed 100% with everything you said. However I don't think the story was "poor". It was good, otherwise it wouldn't have compelled me. The only part of the game I HATE is the "fake death" arc. A completely stupid and forced part of the story to get emotion out of the player. A character, especially a major one, should STAY dead otherwise the whole thing was just a pointless charade of angst and drama. They should've at least made the "miraculous" recovery more interesting and explained it more. After that, who the hell even cares about a character dying since they could be revived with the power of friendship/love/whatever it was that did it.
#9mistermikeymike(Topic Creator)Posted 2/4/2013 9:04:07 PM
perfectchaos83 posted...


Adachi's whole character could also be attributed to being foreshadowy that something is amiss. Especially since it always seems like he's egging you on, no matter how much of an idiot he appears to be, leaking that much information seems intentional on his part. Also, good foreshadowing is retroactive. If you were able to guess what is being foreshadowed then it's like giving the spoilers away.



See i dont agree with that. good foreshadowing is not purely hindsight. good foreshadowing usually has a moment of truth, when the truth crashes down around the players eyes and they think to themselves how could i not have thought of this before. it's perfect.

So what if adachi is a blurter? and says stupid things when he shouldn't. that's not foreshadowing. acting like an idiot hints at nothing. hell teddie isn't the smartest thing around either.

and really adachi also has his own glaring flaws as to being the murderer. how does he know miss yamano? he doesn't really. it was a random murder. and the player never suspects a thing because well.... random killings don't make for good murder stories in general. hell teddie could have pulled off the same murders as adachi. for all you know teddie had access to his human form the whole time, and randomly killed yamano. and then saki.
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#10Nightmare637Posted 2/4/2013 9:06:58 PM
mistermikeymike posted...
perfectchaos83 posted...


Adachi's whole character could also be attributed to being foreshadowy that something is amiss. Especially since it always seems like he's egging you on, no matter how much of an idiot he appears to be, leaking that much information seems intentional on his part. Also, good foreshadowing is retroactive. If you were able to guess what is being foreshadowed then it's like giving the spoilers away.



See i dont agree with that. good foreshadowing is not purely hindsight. good foreshadowing usually has a moment of truth, when the truth crashes down around the players eyes and they think to themselves how could i not have thought of this before. it's perfect.

So what if adachi is a blurter? and says stupid things when he shouldn't. that's not foreshadowing. acting like an idiot hints at nothing. hell teddie isn't the smartest thing around either.

and really adachi also has his own glaring flaws as to being the murderer. how does he know miss yamano? he doesn't really. it was a random murder. and the player never suspects a thing because well.... random killings don't make for good murder stories in general. hell teddie could have pulled off the same murders as adachi. for all you know teddie had access to his human form the whole time, and randomly killed yamano. and then saki.


most murders are random and are done in the moment.

thats realistic one of the few things I praise is Adachi being a very realistic killer.(many murderers are the same.)

oh and he killed them because they spurred his advances.
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