Unless FE4 Wrath is common, Nihil should NEVER come back to the series.

#11king_darksPosted 1/27/2013 8:47:34 AM
Whats wrong with skill mitigation? Let it be like parity and i'm happy.
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#12SkaldskaparmalPosted 1/27/2013 8:59:50 AM
CrashGordon94_ posted...
And what's good about that? Why is that a good thing?


It's bad game design. I've never played the NES version of the original, but that is straight up bad game design.
#13Arcangel22Posted 1/27/2013 3:56:01 PM(edited)
In the Yurius case, Nihil isn't missible. (But, it's the one time where Nihil is needed/justified, Wrath was/is a 100% crit rate in FE4. (And yes, RD no Nihil run. Been there, beat that. Yes, BK is a Luck fight. He always has been.))


In PoR, BK's battle being entirely up to luck made sense. It wasn't necessary to win, but the following events changed depending on what happened (plus you got either Nasir or Ena, Nasir being far more usable seeing as how late in the game that was).

In RD, BK's fight is entirely up to stats if you both have Nihil. Hammer makes him a joke. Without Nihil? It turns into a luck-based fight that you will lose the game if it doesn't go your way. Because he's no longer optional. That sounds like bad game design.

I'd say that "Unwinnable by design" is good game design when used properly: Ergo, make it clear that you need to do X before Y, else ye be doomed, or you need A to beat B, etc. When it's properly flagged, well, skip-story-do-things people who don't heed the warnings? They can rot. All of them.


I'd say "unbeatable by design" is good to relay story elements, not the difference between completion and failure. In Mega Man X, it's impossible to beat Vile in his Ride Armor to give the player a true sense of helplessness and give the player the urge to want to defeat Vile. It helps give a connection to X and relay story elements better than watching X fail in cutscene.

Doing something before being able to harm bosses is a staple for bosses that you have to open weak points to. That's not "unbeatable," that's just a different design for a boss.

EDIT: You could also say Ike's battle with the BK in PoR is also a way to relay that Ike's battle with him was on even footing, and Ike used one small opening to win. Because in PoR beating the BK was a nice additional accomplishment, but wasn't required because there were a few setups that were absolutely required of Ike in order to pull it off. Preparing Ike right was a nice little bonus.

Maedus FE1 was the best final boss ever. Missed the Falchion? GG, you lose. They only hammered you over the head that you must have the Falchion to beat him. Your fault for not paying attention and getting it.


No, that's terrible. A game can be hard all it likes, but the minute you do something like that to a gamer, it takes a lot of fun out of it. Now instead of the game being a fun experience, it's now impossible to win because you failed to do one thing that wasn't even required of you. Someone putting a lot of effort into a game, only to fail in the end because they missed one small detail that they cannot go back and fix without starting ENTIRELY over is horrible game design, and gives the player little motivation to continue or restart.
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#14emagdnEPosted 1/27/2013 4:04:08 PM
it's now impossible to win because you failed to do one thing that wasn't even required of you.

how is it not required of you if you need to do it to win?

plus, you CAN kill Medeus in FE1 without Falchion, it just takes a while, you need someone who can use Gradivus with 20 Str and at least 15 Spd, and lots of healing, Geosphere helps
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#15Arcangel22Posted 1/27/2013 6:18:41 PM
emagdnE posted...
it's now impossible to win because you failed to do one thing that wasn't even required of you.

how is it not required of you if you need to do it to win?

plus, you CAN kill Medeus in FE1 without Falchion, it just takes a while, you need someone who can use Gradivus with 20 Str and at least 15 Spd, and lots of healing, Geosphere helps


It's also not required of us to abuse Sorcerers and Nosferatu, but you say FE13 is broken because of it. So don't go arguing the "required" argument when you won't shut up about that, Endgame.
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#16EndgamePosted 1/27/2013 6:33:40 PM
.....what?

how is a quick easy way to break the game (and far from the only way) comparable to something the game outright tells you to do in order to make beating the final boss a lot less painful comparable?
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#17OCShoesPosted 1/27/2013 6:37:15 PM
OCShoes posted...
Sentinel07 posted...
That's fine, as long as the enemies don't get a skill like Aurora anymore.


I'd actually like to add a slight modification: I think Aurora would be fine on like the hardest difficulty. But having Aurora for all difficulties? Yeah, no.
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#18Arcangel22Posted 1/27/2013 6:39:23 PM
Endgame posted...
.....what?

how is a quick easy way to break the game (and far from the only way) comparable to something the game outright tells you to do in order to make beating the final boss a lot less painful comparable?


Because neither are required to do. Even if the game tells you to do something, or if it's needed to beat the game, but you don't have to do it, it's not required. Required to win and required to do are two different things. My point still stands that earlier that it's still bad game design to make something so important missable, even if it's in plain sight.

The sheer idea of not being able to obtain the Falchion is bad game design. That's the argument here, not the definition of "required."

I would ask you why you insist on spreading that this game is broken when clearly no one gives a damn, but I'm sure your reasoning is equally as stubborn.
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"We're not gang members. We're not criminals. We're just dudes playing video games." ~ Maximilian