what is with all of you trolls hating on casual mode

#71SekusenPosted 1/28/2013 2:58:58 PM
WestbrickIII posted...
Sekusen posted...
Well, there's little debate on how playing without resetting at all on Classic is the "proper and intended" way to play, is there?


The designers wanted death to have weight. That's true if you don't reset and press on, and it's also true if you reset a half-hour map just to keep a unit you're fond of alive. It's not true if you don't have to worry about units dying at all, which is the difference between Classic (resets or no resets) and Casual.


There is less weight, I find, in resetting than just pressing on, though. Well, actually, in my opinion, no more weight than losing them in Casual, otherwise I doubt I would've posted this much in this thread. I'm sure even you feel there is at least LESS weight than when you don't reset?

Also, Fire Emblem may be one of the "better games" but I really, really don't think anyone should use it as an example of "Games can be deep and artistic!!!".
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#72WestbrickIIIPosted 1/28/2013 3:03:47 PM
Sekusen posted...
There is less weight, I find, in resetting than just pressing on, though. Well, actually, in my opinion, no more weight than losing them in Casual,


That first part is something I can agree with -- losing your units and moving on makes everything much more consequential. But resetting to preserve death is still leaps and jumps and bounds beyond Casual, for reasons I hope you can agree are sound and don't boil down to "my opinion."

Also, Fire Emblem may be one of the "better games" but I really, really don't think anyone should use it as an example of "Games can be deep and artistic!!!".


I didn't say artistic, but an experience. You have games like Shadow of the Colossus and ICO, sure, but Fire Emblem still provides gamers with a unique, brilliant experience just like good movies and books do. And in all cases, appealing to a wide audience for its own sake can cheaper the experience. Case in point: there are no first-person shooting segments in Braid.
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#73zelosjrPosted 1/28/2013 3:06:07 PM
Sekusen posted...
Also, Fire Emblem may be one of the "better games" but I really, really don't think anyone should use it as an example of "Games can be deep and artistic!!!".

I think it's very impressive that the fire emblem games manage to make us care about the characters with such minimal visuals and characterization. For most of the series, they have had a truly exceptional character design that creates characters that look and feel real and unique, despite their often oddly colored hair.

I don't think there's any way to describe FE character design other than deeply artistic.
The only games I feel can't be described this way are FE1/2 and awakening. 1/2 are too simplistic and primitive to hold up now, and awakening is a bit too much like modern anime.
#74Rook_the_RangerPosted 1/28/2013 3:08:11 PM
lurking222 posted...
Casual mode is completely contrary to the way FE is supposed to be played. Its really just a compromise to get new players to buy the game. With that said it doesn't really bother me, bands, tv shows and video games all need to appeal to the masses in order to continue to exist for hardcore fans.


This is well said. I would like to add the fact that Intellegent Systems appealed to the masses while not affecting the hardcore fans at the same time. Most attempts at this hurt the core players, and haters should be happy this attempt doesn't.
#75la_mayonesaPosted 1/28/2013 3:10:01 PM
I know you're exaggerating to prove your point, but there's a huge difference between expanding your audience by making options for people with lack of skill, low tolerance for scares, physical or mental disabilities, etc. and expanding your audience by making options for people that want more explosions and boobs.
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#76WestbrickIIIPosted 1/28/2013 3:12:45 PM
la_mayonesa posted...
I know you're exaggerating to prove your point, but there's a huge difference between expanding your audience by making options for people with lack of skill, low tolerance for scares, physical or mental disabilities, etc. and expanding your audience by making options for people that want more explosions and boobs.


I disagree -- both are examples of undermining an experience. But to provide an example more in line with what you're looking for, imagine Citizen Kane had several text bubbles that popped up through the film that recapped what was going on, who the characters were, and what was going to happen later on. These are included to make the film "easier to follow."
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The only thing more consistent than the Pats beating the Texans is my mother's regret she survived childbirth, knowing she spawned a welcher
#77el_pablo65Posted 1/28/2013 3:14:47 PM
I have mixed feelings about this.

First, I agree that perma-death is at the core of what makes Fire Emblem, Fire Emblem but I am weak and the addition of casual mode will make a whole new delima. Is it right to play without fear of death? Is that going to be better than re-playing missions when I lose someone I just cannot afford to. What will I lose when I lose the sense of loss that a permanent loss causes? How many times can I use a form of loss in the same sentence?

What I think they should have done is add in a bonus to those that play in hardcore mode. A higher exp percentage, or some better items, or something. There is little incentive to play hardcore otherwise. Unless you are into that whole loss thing. Which I am, but I'm not. I'm getting nowhere with this and agree with the trolls. Get rid of it. Stop giving us choices.
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#78impossible2beatPosted 1/28/2013 3:15:53 PM
theres a lot of people who have now made this point, but why would any fan care that casual mode is there, when lets say "true" mode, if thats how you feel is there from the start to. They are adding more options, not taking anything away. Why is it bad to give new and even returning players a option they may like more. Also if it sells more copies how is this bad, if fire emblem blows up huge, you will get more games, certainly in the states
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#79BMSiriusPosted 1/28/2013 3:16:47 PM
Eh, this is getting a little heavy to me. "Video games as art" and all of that has never been something I cared about. All I want is to have fun and enjoy a game, it's not about an "experience" to me.

To me this issue is rather simple.

*There's no reason that Casual mode should be removed from the game.

*I would discourage Casual mode if anybody asked me what difficulty to play on, but if it's the only way they're gonna have fun with the game, then it's fine.

*Casual mode is super-easy mode, given that the game is balanced around the idea that you should be able to win without losing any units.

That's all there is to say, really, at least from the gameplay perspective.
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#80WestbrickIIIPosted 1/28/2013 3:20:34 PM
BMSirius posted...
Eh, this is getting a little heavy to me. "Video games as art" and all of that has never been something I cared about. All I want is to have fun and enjoy a game, it's not about an "experience" to me.


I'm with you on this, and I was really reluctant to even make a tangential comparison. But even if games aren't art, they are experiences. They're more than cheap fun.

*There's no reason that Casual mode should be removed from the game.

*I would discourage Casual mode if anybody asked me what difficulty to play on, but if it's the only way they're gonna have fun with the game, then it's fine.

*Casual mode is super-easy mode, given that the game is balanced around the idea that you should be able to win without losing any units.

That's all there is to say, really, at least from the gameplay perspective.


All reasonable except if the first (if you're like me and are in favor of retaining hoity-toity "experience").

Let me ask this to all those who are pro-Casual: why not have the Casual locked to start, and can be unlocked with a completion of Normal-Classic or higher? Because it might alienate a small percentage of people who don't want the classic FE experience?
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The only thing more consistent than the Pats beating the Texans is my mother's regret she survived childbirth, knowing she spawned a welcher