What happened to good level design in Fire Emblem?

#21MarthMoopa(Topic Creator)Posted 2/11/2013 12:28:57 AM
From: Enulf
I'm not sure, but I think Moops made this as a Toke Jopic. Or maybe he is really is a diehard Thracia fan?


Thracia is pretty much the only good Fire Emblem when it comes to strategy. Monshou is alright, but lacks depth. Gaiden is Gaiden, Awakening is basically Gaiden 3 (Sacred being Gaiden 2). Seals/Blazing/PoR are complete trash. Seisen has too much pony racing. RD would be the only other Fire Emblem with good level design.... but thanks to broken characters, they're easily destroyed, which is a shame.
#22FujibayashiSuzuPosted 2/11/2013 12:33:58 AM
Isn't Tharcia that incredibly hard FE that will completely ruin you unless you actually know how the game's mechanics work? Crazy thigns like stamina, weird map conditions, castles and something? And you basically MUST marry everyone off to get good children in later gens and stuff?

Sounds pretty horrible to me.
#23EnulfPosted 2/11/2013 12:34:36 AM
MarthMoopa posted...
From: Enulf
I'm not sure, but I think Moops made this as a Toke Jopic. Or maybe he is really is a diehard Thracia fan?


Thracia is pretty much the only good Fire Emblem when it comes to strategy. Monshou is alright, but lacks depth. Gaiden is Gaiden, Awakening is basically Gaiden 3 (Sacred being Gaiden 2). Seals/Blazing/PoR are complete trash. Seisen has too much pony racing. RD would be the only other Fire Emblem with good level design.... but thanks to broken characters, they're easily destroyed, which is a shame.


Hmmm. So, you're serious then? Just curious. I have trouble with sarcasm on occasion, and especially on the internet.

Is "complete trash" worse than "Gaiden 2 and 3"? I thought Blazing Sword had some good level designs. Such as the Birds of a feather map where you're split up (especially in HHM), the defend missions, the fog of war levels, and the second gaiden chapter with all the magic users, etc.
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#24MarthMoopa(Topic Creator)Posted 2/11/2013 12:36:53 AM
From: FujibayashiSuzu
Isn't Tharcia that incredibly hard FE that will completely ruin you unless you actually know how the game's mechanics work?


Basically what a Strategy game is supposed to be? Yes

Crazy thigns like stamina, weird map conditions, castles and something?


Stamina isn't "crazy", it's a mechanic to prevent abusing just a few overpowered characters, creating a layer of strategy where you need to really think about your deployment.

"Weird" map conditions? I do not know what you mean. It's standard seize and escape type stuff.

Castles? All Fire Emblems have castles.

And you basically MUST marry everyone off to get good children in later gens and stuff?


What? No, that's Seisen. Thracia has no marriage.

Sounds pretty horrible to me.


A strategy game that actually challenges you to use strategy is definitely quite horrible.
#25MarthMoopa(Topic Creator)Posted 2/11/2013 12:37:47 AM
From: Enulf
Is "complete trash" worse than "Gaiden 2 and 3"?


It's all trash. Trash is trash.
#26FujibayashiSuzuPosted 2/11/2013 12:38:26 AM
I don't think it's really good game design to force the player to use units they may not like, or ones that get ruined by poor RNG rolls.

It's like playing a strategy game and it punishes you for not just using the most effective options, but insisting you have to "use everything at your disposal!" instead of just what works.
#27MarthMoopa(Topic Creator)Posted 2/11/2013 12:41:23 AM
From: FujibayashiSuzu
I don't think it's really good game design to force the player to use units they may not like


Personal bias has no business getting in the way of game mechanics.

or ones that get ruined by poor RNG rolls.


Dealing with bad stat gains is part of strategy.

It's like playing a strategy game and it punishes you for not just using the most effective options, but insisting you have to "use everything at your disposal!" instead of just what works.


What good would a strategy game be if you weren't required to "use everything at your disposal"?

A chess player doesn't say "I hate pawns, they're ugly, I don't want to use them" and then rely entirely on their rook. They use everything at their disposal because it is effective and good strategy to do so.
#28EnulfPosted 2/11/2013 12:42:37 AM
FujibayashiSuzu posted...
I don't think it's really good game design to force the player to use units they may not like, or ones that get ruined by poor RNG rolls.

It's like playing a strategy game and it punishes you for not just using the most effective options, but insisting you have to "use everything at your disposal!" instead of just what works.


I think it's just a different playstyle. I prefer the playstyle where I only use the characters I like, but this is admittedly much harder to balance, compared to a situation in which the game forces you to use nearly every character.
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#29FujibayashiSuzuPosted 2/11/2013 12:45:59 AM
What good is a strategy game that says:
"No, your way of playing doesn't work okay? You can't just use the GOOD units! You have to use ALL of them because you have too!"

There's nothing wrong with using the best things to win the game, instead of it forcing you to use a less optimal plan that "uses everything".
#30MarthMoopa(Topic Creator)Posted 2/11/2013 12:51:44 AM
From: FujibayashiSuzu
What good is a strategy game that says:
"No, your way of playing doesn't work okay? You can't just use the GOOD units! You have to use ALL of them because you have too!"

There's nothing wrong with using the best things to win the game, instead of it forcing you to use a less optimal plan that "uses everything".


You do not have to use ALL of the characters in Thracia. You just need to use more than Othin and Asvel, because if they get tired you're left with untrained units. The point of fatigue is to rely less on powerful stats and think more about actual strategy. You will never be forced to use Ronin, that's for sure.

Resources are also a big part of Thracia. You are not handed an overabundance of powerful weapons and gold, you need to think carefully about what you use, or you might find yourself stuck with a bunch of half-used iron weapons, and you have to put effort into obtaining those powerful weapons and even iron weapons (because your lord-buddy in the next continent will not be handing you 40,000 gold when you drop by to visit to fund your entire game)