Is Vaike the best fighter in the series?

#71BobTDonutPosted 2/13/2013 11:56:49 PM
From: The_Undying_84 | #070
I don't know Thracia


I wouldn't comment on it then.
---
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/black-dragonflight/Arpandaday/advanced
http://i.imgur.com/lPu0J.gif
#72KingofDeceit666Posted 2/13/2013 11:57:56 PM
BobTDonut posted...
From: KingofDeceit666 | #066
I did, but I didn't respond to it because explaining that classes went through changes over the course of a few games is irrelevant to the argument at hand.


Its completely relevant to the argument at hand. The base argument is "What is a Fighter?" and in order to answer that, you need to know what Fighters are classified as. Do we count just any class that has the word "Fighter" in it? Do we count base classes that use only Axes? Do they need to promote into a Hero? All of these factors change throughout the games.

Only once FE6 was released did we have a standard for Fighters, and that is a base class that wields Axes and has the ability to promote into a Warrior to use Axes and Bows. If we apply this standard to other games, then only FE4 becomes the closes with their Axe Fighter. The only game that contradicts this is FE8, but we know from FE7 that the original promotion for a Pirate is Berserker, and they were only given Warrior because of the gimmick of tree'd promotions.


Axe fighters are all three of those things. They have "fighter" in the name, use only axes, and promote into what is essentially a hero. Everything about axe fighter is near-identical to the now-standard "fighter" that appears in post FE5 games. That's precisely why myself and others have argued that Othin and Halvan, axe fighters, are fighters.

If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck...
---
http://tinyurl.com/a8lyhvl
#73BobTDonutPosted 2/14/2013 12:00:57 AM(edited)
From: KingofDeceit666 | #072
and promote into what is essentially a hero


But the standard Fighter does not promote into a Hero. They promote into a Warrior.

The only game where they promote into a Hero is in FE8 due to the branched promotions, the same reason that Pirates can become Warriors.
---
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/black-dragonflight/Arpandaday/advanced
http://i.imgur.com/lPu0J.gif
#74MarthMoopaPosted 2/14/2013 12:00:27 AM
From: Kysafen
Thracia 776's promotions are unconventional by today's standards.


Irrelevant. Thracia's only concern is itself. It doesn't need to conform its class standards to newer games, because it becomes an illogical mess.

Nanna's a troubadour who promotes to a Paladin, Saphy's a Priest who becomes a Sage, Machua's a Myrmidon (or "Sword Fighter", which has been synonymous with Myrmidon) who promotes to a Mercenary/Hero, and Lara's a Thief who can promote to a Dancer... or to a Rogue, who can then promote to a Dancer, who can then promote to a Rogue again.


And Homer is a Bard who becomes a Sage, but we don't isolate poor little Homer all by himself, we classify him as a mage, because that's the family he fits with from his own game.
#75EscorianPosted 2/14/2013 12:01:25 AM
KingofDeceit666 posted...
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck...


Then they will argue it's a cow just to argue.
#76BobTDonutPosted 2/14/2013 12:03:29 AM
From: Escorian | #075
KingofDeceit666 posted...
If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck...


Then they will argue it's a cow just to argue.


The problem with this is that it looks like a duck, but swims like a goose, and we are trying to figure out exactly what it quacks like.
---
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/black-dragonflight/Arpandaday/advanced
http://i.imgur.com/lPu0J.gif
#77NickotenPosted 2/14/2013 12:35:21 AM(edited)
Based on the arguments presented, I think it's fair to say those guys aren't Fighters, but rather Axe Fighters which have been shown to be a totally different class. However, I think it's also fair to say that their base class is also not Mercenary, which is the statement that started this whole derail.
---
-sig-
#78BobTDonutPosted 2/14/2013 12:52:31 AM
From: Nickoten | #077
I think it's also fair to say that their base class is also not Mercenary, which is the statement that started this whole derail.


Then what is their base class? Clearly, they are in the same spot as Sword Fighters since they both promote into the Mercenary class, so what classification would we give them? Or do we classify them under Hero, which has been the name for on-foot Sword and Axe wielding unit since the very first game until 776?

And if we go the Hero route, which has been exclusive to Mercenaries outside of FE8 (branched promotion from Warrior to give them a 2nd promotion) and FE10 (exclusive to Ike), then we have to classify them also as Mercenaries, just ones that wield Axes to start.
---
http://us.battle.net/wow/en/character/black-dragonflight/Arpandaday/advanced
http://i.imgur.com/lPu0J.gif
#79EscorianPosted 2/14/2013 12:56:36 AM
BobTDonut posted...
From: Nickoten | #077
I think it's also fair to say that their base class is also not Mercenary, which is the statement that started this whole derail.


Then what is their base class? Clearly, they are in the same spot as Sword Fighters since they both promote into the Mercenary class, so what classification would we give them? Or do we classify them under Hero, which has been the name for on-foot Sword and Axe wielding unit since the very first game until 776?

And if we go the Hero route, which has been exclusive to Mercenaries outside of FE8 (branched promotion from Warrior to give them a 2nd promotion) and FE10 (exclusive to Ike), then we have to classify them also as Mercenaries, just ones that wield Axes to start.


Branched promotions are also in this game.... and Fighters turn into Hero too.
#80NickotenPosted 2/14/2013 1:03:43 AM(edited)
BobTDonut posted...
From: Nickoten | #077
I think it's also fair to say that their base class is also not Mercenary, which is the statement that started this whole derail.


Then what is their base class? Clearly, they are in the same spot as Sword Fighters since they both promote into the Mercenary class, so what classification would we give them? Or do we classify them under Hero, which has been the name for on-foot Sword and Axe wielding unit since the very first game until 776?

And if we go the Hero route, which has been exclusive to Mercenaries outside of FE8 (branched promotion from Warrior to give them a 2nd promotion) and FE10 (exclusive to Ike), then we have to classify them also as Mercenaries, just ones that wield Axes to start.


Their base class is Axe Fighter. I thought that was the conclusion we came to? That that class doesn't really exist anymore? You also pointed out yourself how axe-only base classes have been so different up until FE6. FE5's Axe Fighters are apparently an anomaly, so categorically saying that they are Fighters or Mercenaries feels misleading.
---
-sig-