Fire Emblem is not a balanced series playable character wise.

#41WestbrickIIIPosted 3/8/2013 11:33:24 AM
nflchamp posted...
No? I mean, yeah, you can't solo the game with Marcus, but you can abuse Marcus early on to get extremely low turns. Spend that buffer of turns you built up later in the game in arenas or EXP rich chapters. Crush EXP rank anyways. Marcus will still net 1900 EXP, too.

I'll be serious here, balance doesn't really matter when it comes to ranks. Knowing how to abuse the system is the most important thing.


You're going to use the arena heavily regardless, but blazing through the first half-dozen maps with Marcus is going to put you in an experience debt that you can't get out from.
#42BlueSophiaPosted 3/8/2013 6:33:47 PM
WestbrickIII posted...
This doesn't make any sense. You don't have to play Ranked just like you don't have to play Hector Hard Mode. But both are a part of the game and both need to be considered. .


Are you still riding this gravy train? Ranking is a system that does not need to be adhered to just like how player points are ignored by pretty much anyone that plays fighting games. If it has no actual value other than the number (reward system a la Riviera) then it is arbitrary because the only reason to meet its expectations is bragging rights. Hector mode is BUILT INTO THE GAME which means that in order to complete the game, you need to beat it.

WestbrickIII posted...
This description applies well to FE7R, actually.

Look, if you're going to be stubborn and don't want to count Ranked, then FE7's balance is merely "okay." It's still probably the best in the series, as most units are very usable, but that's not saying much considering how imbalanced the series is. If you do include Ranked- and you should- then it's superbly balanced


No they are not. Usable does not equate to valuable. There are plenty of units that are downright bad while others just show up and wreck the entirety of the game. Good balance would mean that all units stand on the same level and can match each other on the same level. These games are NOT balanced because they cannot do that. In fact, the Fire Emblem games were designed specifically so that the units would not be balanced.

Why is this game balanced? Because all the units have the capacity to play on the same level. Their viability may change due to their reclass abilities, but the difference between them is only a difference between good and better rather than being good and atrociously bad.
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#43ArtiRockPosted 3/9/2013 9:51:09 PM
Are you still riding this gravy train? Ranking is a system that does not need to be adhered to just like how player points are ignored by pretty much anyone that plays fighting games. If it has no actual value other than the number (reward system a la Riviera) then it is arbitrary because the only reason to meet its expectations is bragging rights. Hector mode is BUILT INTO THE GAME which means that in order to complete the game, you need to beat it.

Ranking is built into the game as well. So it counts. Nothing in games are mandatory, using multiple units outside of your lord is not mandatory, that does not mean that we should not care about everything else.


No they are not. Usable does not equate to valuable. There are plenty of units that are downright bad while others just show up and wreck the entirety of the game. Good balance would mean that all units stand on the same level and can match each other on the same level. These games are NOT balanced because they cannot do that. In fact, the Fire Emblem games were designed specifically so that the units would not be balanced.

Usable is a big step in balance, there is not a single unit in FE7 that reaches a level where you basically have to scum the game to use them. Even characters like Nino are decent enough when you first get them. Even if they are a bit weak. Good balance means that characters are all useful in some regard, and even the weakest of units in this game can still pick up and fight. The game itself is fairly balanced in this regard.

Why is this game balanced? Because all the units have the capacity to play on the same level. Their viability may change due to their reclass abilities, but the difference between them is only a difference between good and better rather than being good and atrociously bad.

Except balance is not just how well your units function compared to one another. That is not balanced.
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#44SuperSonicDBZPosted 3/9/2013 10:06:09 PM
Aphoph posted...
But that's okay. I'm sure nobody plays FE for the character balance.


I am sure as heck not. I am playing for fun. Added bonus that no one is 100% useless. Y'know, like Dunsparce in Pokemon. I mean what use is that guy? :D
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#45WestbrickIIIPosted 3/9/2013 10:09:11 PM
ArtiRock posted...
Are you still riding this gravy train? Ranking is a system that does not need to be adhered to just like how player points are ignored by pretty much anyone that plays fighting games. If it has no actual value other than the number (reward system a la Riviera) then it is arbitrary because the only reason to meet its expectations is bragging rights. Hector mode is BUILT INTO THE GAME which means that in order to complete the game, you need to beat it.

Ranking is built into the game as well. So it counts. Nothing in games are mandatory, using multiple units outside of your lord is not mandatory, that does not mean that we should not care about everything else.


No they are not. Usable does not equate to valuable. There are plenty of units that are downright bad while others just show up and wreck the entirety of the game. Good balance would mean that all units stand on the same level and can match each other on the same level. These games are NOT balanced because they cannot do that. In fact, the Fire Emblem games were designed specifically so that the units would not be balanced.

Usable is a big step in balance, there is not a single unit in FE7 that reaches a level where you basically have to scum the game to use them. Even characters like Nino are decent enough when you first get them. Even if they are a bit weak. Good balance means that characters are all useful in some regard, and even the weakest of units in this game can still pick up and fight. The game itself is fairly balanced in this regard.

Why is this game balanced? Because all the units have the capacity to play on the same level. Their viability may change due to their reclass abilities, but the difference between them is only a difference between good and better rather than being good and atrociously bad.

Except balance is not just how well your units function compared to one another. That is not balanced.


Thanks for saving me the trouble of responding to this guy.
#46IlluminaZer0Posted 3/9/2013 10:15:54 PM(edited)
FE7 still had horrid characters like Dorcas, Isadora, and Karla. Karla is debated to be the worst Swordmaster in FE history, at least Shanam has the bargain skill and is obviously intended to a joke in combat.

The weapon weight/CON system was badly designed, as was the character support system. You basically had to meta-game to not only simply achieve many supports, but to optimize them due to the 5 support limit.

I like Fire Emblem 7 myself, but it's way overrated.
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#47DemiseEndPosted 3/9/2013 10:15:43 PM
IlluminaZer0 posted...
FE7 still had horrid characters like Dorcas, Isadora, and Karla. Karla is debated to be the worst Swordmaster in FE history when, at least Shanam has the bargain skill.

The weapon weight/CON system was badly designed, as was the character support system. You basically had to meta-game to not only simply achieve many supports, but to optimize them due to the 5 support limit.

I like Fire Emblem 7 myself, but it's way overrated.



Dorcas is pretty bad but hes not Vylan/Matthis/Arden/Wendy/most of SD/12
Isadora being bad is new
Karla..... yeah, read Dorcas
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#48CloudflierPosted 3/9/2013 10:19:20 PM
Wow, great work with the flamebait, Aphoph. X3 Definately a troll topic if I ever did see one. This is rather entertaining.
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#49WestbrickIIIPosted 3/9/2013 10:21:09 PM(edited)
IlluminaZer0 posted...
FE7 still had horrid characters like Dorcas, Isadora, and Karla.


Dorcas is considered an Upper Mid character: he's got the best availability of any unit and extremely solid base stats. He can weaken units to a sliver of health in the early-going, which helps pull in experience, and only falls apart over halfway through the campaign.

Isadora is excellent at what she does. Eight movement, weapon triangle, and good enough speed to double consistently even with her low constitution. Around a Mid character.

Karla is awful, but she's meant to be a trophy unit. She's fine in that regard. Excluding Karla, every other bottom tier character has plenty of use (Renault for late-game staff utility, Nino for experience rank utility, etc.)

The weapon weight/CON system was badly designed, as was the character support system. You basically had to meta-game to not only simply achieve many supports, but to optimize them due to the 5 support limit.


There's absolutely nothing wrong with FE7's weight system, and Awakening actually shows why weight is important (hello weight-free Nosferatu!). The GBA support system has been improved since, but it wasn't bad in its own right, and most supports are perfectly feasible without turn grinding.
#50IlluminaZer0Posted 3/9/2013 10:26:53 PM(edited)
DemiseEnd posted...
Dorcas is pretty bad but hes not Vylan/Matthis/Arden/Wendy/most of SD/12
Isadora being bad is new
Karla..... yeah, read Dorcas

I never said that Dorcas was the worst fighter in FE history. 20% speed growth is pretty horrid.

Isadora joins late, has low stats (she only has +5 total over Marcus), and joins in Chapter 20/21.

Karla is not comparable to Dorcas in the least. To even access Karla you need to use extremely enigmatic recruitment strategy of leveling Barte to a Warrior (in a game where he is outclassed by Hector and Dart, balanced right?) and hope that the two don't kill each other.

And even after this: She joins 25/31x and has low stats for her level with low growth potential.

Also, digging up an ancient topic:

http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/643003-fire-emblem-awakening/65362553
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