What is the Avatar's best marriage?

#11soma2035Posted 4/21/2013 12:33:18 PM(edited)
doshpashta posted...
soma2035 posted...
doshpashta posted...
soma2035 posted...
Nah!Morgan should be taking 0 damage from Anna, so no, Vengeance is not good on Manaketes on harder maps.


Did you even read my post? Vengeance is extremely good for solo mapclearing and especially StreetPass battles, where it's nearly gamebreaking. If you want to bust your ass off with constant rallybotting and pairups, that's fine too, but it's obvious to anybody that Vengeance is useless in that situation.


Kellam!Nah!Morgan with +Def/-Lck Avatar has 51 defense.
+10 from Limit Breaker
+10 from pairing up with a general (which takes 2 seconds on your first turn)
+13 from Dragonstone+.

Without even rallying, you've got 84 defense. Anna has 65 Str, 15 Mt Brave Lance, and +2 Attack from weapon rank, giving her 82 Attack. Without rallying, the highest might enemy in the game isn't hurting you unless she procs Aether.

The only thing that should be hurting you is counter, and Vengeance makes that worse by making it more likely you'll counter yourself to death.


That's fine. I do appreciate the detailed breakdown you presented. I wasn't targeting the build for TSON's Anna, though, but sure, you do win the argument for the case when TSON Anna doesn't proc Aether.

However, Tactician Manakete is still the best all-around Manakete build, IMO, because of it's insane utility and class access. I agree that Limit Breaker +Def Manakete is insane in its own right though.


Uhh... you're still missing the point. I wouldn't tackle TSON Anna like that, because she can one-turn you even with Rallies if the RNG hates you.

The point is that if even TSON Anna can't scratch you without Aether, Vengeance is never going to be adding significant damage, unless your opponents have counter. If your opponents have counter, you'll just as likely kill yourself as add damage effectively. It's not even really useful in Spotpass, because spotpass characters aren't going to have particularly high stats. It's skills you have to worry about, thanks to the fact that you can pair up and your opponent can't. If you're actually worried about running into strong streetpass teams, you're gonna need things to deal with Miracle/Counter, for instance, or Lethality. Vengeance isn't going to save you there, either.

Vengeance is just bad on a maxed Manakete, even in the situations you listed as a reason for using it.

legendrider posted...
Doesn't help she has a 65% chance of activating aether then.


Right. That, and counter is why I wouldn't actually use that build against Anna. Honestly, I'd rather try to one-turn her with Sages, with or without a General tank to switch her weapon. But that's not the point, the point is that Manakete Morgan shouldn't be getting scratched, let alone damage enough that Vengeance becomes useful, even on endgame maps.

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#12bearclaw13(Topic Creator)Posted 4/21/2013 12:37:28 PM
soma2035 posted...
Avatar!Cynthia and Morgan > Avatar!Noire and Morgan.


Where did you get that idea?
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#13soma2035Posted 4/21/2013 12:40:50 PM
bearclaw13 posted...
soma2035 posted...
Avatar!Cynthia and Morgan > Avatar!Noire and Morgan.


Where did you get that idea?


From the fact that Avatar!Noire needs extra help to hit 75 speed (either an Assassin support or +Spd on Avatar), which then negates the extra magic Noire has over Cynthia.
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To right the countless wrongs of our day, we shine this light of true redemption,that this place may become as paradise. What a wonderful world such would be...
#14MottmanPosted 4/21/2013 12:43:22 PM
PK_Gaming posted...
SazukeEX posted...
Sumia

agreed

bump it


I get so freaking lucky sometimes. I chose Avatar/Sumia because I loved their supports and I loved her, I had no idea this was actually a smart matchup too.

Although I can confirm that my Avatar-fathered Cynthia is absurdly good.
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#15xKYSxPosted 4/21/2013 12:44:17 PM
SazukeEX posted...
Sumia


yes.
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#16TalesOfGodPosted 4/21/2013 12:50:25 PM
The avatar? Screw the Avatar, I'll personally marry Tiki ^.^

Anyways, skill wise might be SPOILERS; Aversa (as she has the ability to make any magic user dark mage along with gale force).

Actually forget Aversa. Stat wise, it's Lucina.
No doubt about it as third generation = Lv 100++++
;D

Other than that, Tiki works too with high stats, being my personal favourite and has manakete.
#17soma2035Posted 4/21/2013 12:52:16 PM
soma2035 posted...
bearclaw13 posted...
soma2035 posted...
Avatar!Cynthia and Morgan > Avatar!Noire and Morgan.


Where did you get that idea?


From the fact that Avatar!Noire needs extra help to hit 75 speed (either an Assassin support or +Spd on Avatar), which then negates the extra magic Noire has over Cynthia.


+Mag/-Str Cynthia has 49 Mag, 40 Skl, 46 Spd
+Mag/-Str Noire has 52 Mag, 37 Skl, 44 Spd

45 is the breakpoint for reaching 75 with +10 LB +10 Rallies +8 Dark Flier Support and +2 Tiki's Tear. In order for +Mag/-Str Noire to reach 75, you need to use an Assassin pairup instead of Dark Flier, which is -3 Mag / +2 Skl compared to Dark Flier. So +Mag/-Str Cynthia has equal magic, +1 Skl, and +1 Spd compared to +Mag/-Str Noire when both hit 75 speed.

Alternatively,
+Spd/-Str Noire has 48 Mag, 39 Skl, 45 Spd. You no longer need an Assassin support, but you lose -4 magic from the magic asset, leaving you with -1 Mag / -1 Skl / -1 Spd compared to +Mag/-Str Cynthia.

On top of this, there's the fact that Sumia's pairings are heavily restricted, while Tharja's are not. Avatar x Sumia > Avatar x Tharja by a longshot.

Severa is pretty much in the same boat as Cynthia, with more defense but less magic (and one less speed, conveniently still hitting the breakpoint). On the other hand, Cordelia passes Merc + Dark Mage, so you really don't need the unfettered skill access for Severa to be amazing.
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To right the countless wrongs of our day, we shine this light of true redemption,that this place may become as paradise. What a wonderful world such would be...
#18SazukeEXPosted 4/21/2013 12:54:50 PM
Mottman posted...
PK_Gaming posted...
SazukeEX posted...
Sumia

agreed

bump it


I get so freaking lucky sometimes. I chose Avatar/Sumia because I loved their supports and I loved her, I had no idea this was actually a smart matchup too.

Although I can confirm that my Avatar-fathered Cynthia is absurdly good.


Ironic that the canon lover for Chrom is the best MU pairing. >_>
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#19TehTrumpCardPosted 4/21/2013 1:50:37 PM(edited)
Nowi so you get two Manaketes with all (gender available) skills + Counter/Wrath/Despoil for the price of one instead of marrying Nah for a god-tier Manakete Morgan.

Unless you're interested in Tiki's higher Skl/Spd modifiers in exchange for lower Def/Res
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#20RDS1Posted 4/21/2013 2:24:30 PM
soma2035 posted...
+Mag/-Str Cynthia has 49 Mag, 40 Skl, 46 Spd
+Mag/-Str Noire has 52 Mag, 37 Skl, 44 Spd

45 is the breakpoint for reaching 75 with +10 LB +10 Rallies +8 Dark Flier Support and +2 Tiki's Tear. In order for +Mag/-Str Noire to reach 75, you need to use an Assassin pairup instead of Dark Flier, which is -3 Mag / +2 Skl compared to Dark Flier. So +Mag/-Str Cynthia has equal magic, +1 Skl, and +1 Spd compared to +Mag/-Str Noire when both hit 75 speed.

Alternatively,
+Spd/-Str Noire has 48 Mag, 39 Skl, 45 Spd. You no longer need an Assassin support, but you lose -4 magic from the magic asset, leaving you with -1 Mag / -1 Skl / -1 Spd compared to +Mag/-Str Cynthia.


Why exactly couldn't you make Noire a Sage instead to solve the Speed issue, especially when she also gets higher Magic and Skill?
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