Rate the Skill, Paralogue 10: Rally Spectrum and Rally Movement.

#21Model_OmegaPosted 4/22/2013 10:58:49 AM
Munchkinator posted...
So what's up with the !letter stuff in rankings? Like "*Sol (Hero,Lv5)!A" being in S-rank; does that mean it was originally A but paralogue'd to S, or vice versa?

I haven't really been following these topics much so I don't know how that bit works really

EDUT: herpl, forgot my vote. S for Rally Spectrum due to being crazy strong and absurdly useful. A for movement; that extra 1 move can be very useful for positioning on woods on many maps (R&R3 for example) where cover is effectively necessary at lower stats and still somewhat useful later on.


Yes that's exactly it.
---
Patrolling the Awakening message boards almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter...
Viva la revolucion bolivariana!
#22Shadow_Master_JPosted 4/22/2013 11:00:48 AM
Munchkinator posted...
So what's up with the !letter stuff in rankings? Like "*Sol (Hero,Lv5)!A" being in S-rank; does that mean it was originally A but paralogue'd to S, or vice versa.


It's exactly that.

I'm surprised by people giving A to RMov. If they think 1 Movement alone is that important people really must love having half-team composed of Dark Knights and Great Knights for pair-up. Also, if Movement really reaches A, Heart must go S.
---
If you're reading this, CONGRATULATIONS!! You're wasting your time!!
#23MunchkinatorPosted 4/22/2013 11:06:35 AM
Ah, thanks for the answer, you two!
---
Another day, another unsuccessful genetic abomination!
#24Model_OmegaPosted 4/22/2013 11:07:13 AM
Shadow_Master_J posted...
Munchkinator posted...
So what's up with the !letter stuff in rankings? Like "*Sol (Hero,Lv5)!A" being in S-rank; does that mean it was originally A but paralogue'd to S, or vice versa.


It's exactly that.

I'm surprised by people giving A to RMov. If they think 1 Movement alone is that important people really must love having half-team composed of Dark Knights and Great Knights for pair-up. Also, if Movement really reaches A, Heart must go S.


Yes, Rally Move on it's own is way too situational, I can't believe so many are giving it >C
---
Patrolling the Awakening message boards almost makes you wish for a nuclear winter...
Viva la revolucion bolivariana!
#25MunchkinatorPosted 4/22/2013 11:23:59 AM
Model_Omega posted...
Shadow_Master_J posted...
Munchkinator posted...
So what's up with the !letter stuff in rankings? Like "*Sol (Hero,Lv5)!A" being in S-rank; does that mean it was originally A but paralogue'd to S, or vice versa.


It's exactly that.

I'm surprised by people giving A to RMov. If they think 1 Movement alone is that important people really must love having half-team composed of Dark Knights and Great Knights for pair-up. Also, if Movement really reaches A, Heart must go S.


Yes, Rally Move on it's own is way too situational, I can't believe so many are giving it >C

Well, let's compare it to other rallies for this specific discussion, yes?

Spectrum/Heart are (to me, at least) obvious S-rank, due to absurd versatility and power. Beyond them, though, you have a set of situational rallies; how useful is mag +4 to a berserker? str+4 to a luna-using sorcerer? If a unit already has high defense, how useful is def +4? Luck +8 is probably the closest to "versatile" outside of the stat boosting ones, and it's just... generally bad anyways. Maybe speed+4, but again, once you have enough speed to reliably double people it becomes nigh-worthless.

Compare those to move+1. It's useful for everyone regardless of their base move, and while it won't necessarily be necessary every turn, and it's certainly nowhere near as good as Heart, it will always be useful regardless of your stats or those of your opponent. It can be used to go just far enough to rescue someone, to finish a dangerous enemy quickly, or better chain Galeforces to speedrun a map.

It's certainly not as good as spectrum/heart, but I'd argue that it is more versatile AND more consistently useful than any other rally. Comparing it to other skills is definitely more up for debate and I don't think a B would be unreasonable, but again, we get into the versatility issue. Vengeance, while a great skill in certain situations, is not good for everyone. Vantage is worthless most of the time - outside of when it is COMPLETELY AWESOME and saves your life. Tomefaire is a waste of a slot unless you have a tome, and even then it's arguably overall worse than AS+2. Axebreaker is worthless except against axes - then it's great. Sol is worthless if it procs on the second attack when the enemy has 8hp left, and amazing if it procs on the first attack.

Tons of skills are like that; useless or mediocre most of the time, great in their niche. Many of the highest-rated skills are so incredibly versatile and powerful that they deserve their high rank; Sol is the only source of on-enemy-turn healing and quite powerful so even despite its occasional meh-ness it's still great, while Galeforce, albeit a little overrated on certain character types (drain tanks especially), is an incredibly powerful tactical tool that can extend your movement by 1.5-2x easily each turn depending on positioning, or simply allow you to position a little better when you just need 1 more move to get onto that fort for enemy turn.

Rally Move might not be as good as Armsthrift (which I definitely think deserves an S+, but argument for another day), but it has universal usefulness and honestly it's probably third best of the rallies anyways - and it's not like there's a huge issue of which rallies to use given that enough are gender locked that you need two rallybots to cover them, and that you can get all rallies onto those two rallybots anyways.

That's my take on the issue, anyways. A or B would both be reasonable spots for Rally Move to end up at, but C is decidedly underselling it.
---
Another day, another unsuccessful genetic abomination!
#26guedesbrawl(Topic Creator)Posted 4/22/2013 5:48:42 PM
Munchkinator posted...
Model_Omega posted...
Shadow_Master_J posted...
Munchkinator posted...
So what's up with the !letter stuff in rankings? Like "*Sol (Hero,Lv5)!A" being in S-rank; does that mean it was originally A but paralogue'd to S, or vice versa.


It's exactly that.

I'm surprised by people giving A to RMov. If they think 1 Movement alone is that important people really must love having half-team composed of Dark Knights and Great Knights for pair-up. Also, if Movement really reaches A, Heart must go S.


Yes, Rally Move on it's own is way too situational, I can't believe so many are giving it >C

Well, let's compare it to other rallies for this specific discussion, yes?

Spectrum/Heart are (to me, at least) obvious S-rank, due to absurd versatility and power. Beyond them, though, you have a set of situational rallies; how useful is mag +4 to a berserker? str+4 to a luna-using sorcerer? If a unit already has high defense, how useful is def +4? Luck +8 is probably the closest to "versatile" outside of the stat boosting ones, and it's just... generally bad anyways. Maybe speed+4, but again, once you have enough speed to reliably double people it becomes nigh-worthless.

Compare those to move+1. It's useful for everyone regardless of their base move, and while it won't necessarily be necessary every turn, and it's certainly nowhere near as good as Heart, it will always be useful regardless of your stats or those of your opponent. It can be used to go just far enough to rescue someone, to finish a dangerous enemy quickly, or better chain Galeforces to speedrun a map.

It's certainly not as good as spectrum/heart, but I'd argue that it is more versatile AND more consistently useful than any other rally. Comparing it to other skills is definitely more up for debate and I don't think a B would be unreasonable, but again, we get into the versatility issue. Vengeance, while a great skill in certain situations, is not good for everyone. Vantage is worthless most of the time - outside of when it is COMPLETELY AWESOME and saves your life. Tomefaire is a waste of a slot unless you have a tome, and even then it's arguably overall worse than AS+2. Axebreaker is worthless except against axes - then it's great. Sol is worthless if it procs on the second attack when the enemy has 8hp left, and amazing if it procs on the first attack.

Tons of skills are like that; useless or mediocre most of the time, great in their niche. Many of the highest-rated skills are so incredibly versatile and powerful that they deserve their high rank; Sol is the only source of on-enemy-turn healing and quite powerful so even despite its occasional meh-ness it's still great, while Galeforce, albeit a little overrated on certain character types (drain tanks especially), is an incredibly powerful tactical tool that can extend your movement by 1.5-2x easily each turn depending on positioning, or simply allow you to position a little better when you just need 1 more move to get onto that fort for enemy turn.

Rally Move might not be as good as Armsthrift (which I definitely think deserves an S+, but argument for another day), but it has universal usefulness and honestly it's probably third best of the rallies anyways - and it's not like there's a huge issue of which rallies to use given that enough are gender locked that you need two rallybots to cover them, and that you can get all rallies onto those two rallybots anyways.

That's my take on the issue, anyways. A or B would both be reasonable spots for Rally Move to end up at, but C is decidedly underselling it.


It was a nice read. I just think that your are underestimating speed a little, but i dunno.
---
Confession Time!
jRPGs are pretty much the best thing that ever happened to Video Games - Soanevalcke6
#27MunchkinatorPosted 4/23/2013 3:17:54 PM
Speed is possibly the most important stat in the game; the difference between doubling and being doubled requires HUGE amounts of attack/defense to equal. However, it has very set breakpoints (varying by situation) beyond which it has very little value; considering how easy the pair-up system makes it to double even stat-capped enemies, even many maxed streetpass teams, I feel like it's less important for its own worth as hitting whatever the magic breakpoint is (ex. 70 speed for TSON Anna) and anything beyond that is meh.

You get 3+ speed from any pairup, easily 6-10 depending on exactly which classes are involved and support ranks, whereas movement only comes from a few pairups that may not be optimal for your given class. Similarly, there are plenty of strong stat boosters or damage amplifiers (at least one of which, LB, is in every moveset anyways) but very few ways to boost your movement via skills, and those that do have to fight for very valuable skill slots that usually AREN'T open. That is actually exactly why I voted the move rally fairly highly; rather than fighting for slots you just drop it on a rallybot and give it to everyone nearby for free!
---
Another day, another unsuccessful genetic abomination!
#28DharengoPosted 4/23/2013 3:21:10 PM
I'd say A/B as well. In normal situations.

If using a Rally Monkey, becomes S/A.

If using two, becomes SS/S.
#29arvilinoPosted 4/23/2013 3:32:17 PM
Rally Spectrum, S: Even alone it boosts your collective force by an extremely significant margin along with another one(Strength,Magic,Speed or Defense mostly) it's even better. I honestly think it's both the best singular skill and best skill paired with other ones.

Rally Movement: C: It's ok, can't see it being used unless the user also has another Rally Skill(most likely Rally Speed,but I guess with DLC any female with Rally Movement will have Rally Heart for +2 move).
#30guedesbrawl(Topic Creator)Posted 4/23/2013 5:48:11 PM
wow, i forgot about this and went to sleep... lol. sorry guys. gonna let this run for a little while longer
---
Confession Time!
jRPGs are pretty much the best thing that ever happened to Video Games - Soanevalcke6