Why is reinforcement mechanic implemented so badly?

#41monkeypahngPosted 4/27/2013 11:53:44 AM(edited)
Darcos posted...


Alright, let's change the analogy to say you're going to be attacked, but you have no idea what you're going to be attacked with. Beast killer against cavalry or archers against flying units.

And no, I cannot always cover the spawn points 100% of the time. Otherwise I couldn't advance to any spawn position that is guarded by any enemies.


Then pair-up and use your tanks to bait the reinforcements and have characters adjacent to each other to ensure you can't get attack on all sides and get surrounded. You don't have to cover the spawn points 100% as long as you don't send characters that can't withstand a hit or send them out all by themselves to get a surround.

Whilst you should carry healing items if your healer is too vulnerable. Also make use of specific character's abilities that boost avoid/hit or rally commands that can raise nearby character's defence and resistance etc. Whenever they are not attacking and slowly proceed forward depending on how cautious you want to be. Also make use of environmental bonuses when it makes sense to use them.
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#42banjo kazooiePosted 4/27/2013 12:11:35 PM
Darcos posted...
monkeypahng posted...
Darcos posted...
monkeypahng posted...
You're just a terrible player TC.

The whole point of an ambush/reinforcements is to catch the opposing army of guard. Ignoring the fact that they downright announce it. Maybe you should go play casual/newcomer mode since you obviously don't know how to play.

You might as well complain about why the game targets your weak units and kills them.



I could also announce someone is going to throw a rock at you in a room with several people around you, but not tell who it is and then say you suck since you couldn't even dodge with a warning since you had no idea who the thrower would be.


Well, actually. Your analogy is flawed since the circumstances surrounding them is not the same. Whilst you don't even need to dodge the attack but just survive it, which shouldn't be a problem if you took the necessary precautions.

Whilst you're a terrible player, no only because you can't see it's your own fault. But because you claim the gaming mechanic was badly implemented which is not the case, but rather, your lack of strategy.


Alright, let's change the analogy to say you're going to be attacked, but you have no idea what you're going to be attacked with. Beast killer against cavalry or archers against flying units.

And no, I cannot always cover the spawn points 100% of the time. Otherwise I couldn't advance to any spawn position that is guarded by any enemies.


How about a better analogy. You're told at least one person in the vast hall is going to take up to eight steps towards you and, if you're in arms reach, try to punch you. The smart thing to do is just stand at least ten steps away from everyone in the room. Keep away from the edges of the map, or the forts, or the staircases, depending on the map, until the map runs out of reinforcements. It's common sense.
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#43The Fir CoatPosted 4/27/2013 12:49:05 PM
banjo kazooie posted...
Darcos posted...
monkeypahng posted...
Darcos posted...
monkeypahng posted...
You're just a terrible player TC.

The whole point of an ambush/reinforcements is to catch the opposing army of guard. Ignoring the fact that they downright announce it. Maybe you should go play casual/newcomer mode since you obviously don't know how to play.

You might as well complain about why the game targets your weak units and kills them.



I could also announce someone is going to throw a rock at you in a room with several people around you, but not tell who it is and then say you suck since you couldn't even dodge with a warning since you had no idea who the thrower would be.


Well, actually. Your analogy is flawed since the circumstances surrounding them is not the same. Whilst you don't even need to dodge the attack but just survive it, which shouldn't be a problem if you took the necessary precautions.

Whilst you're a terrible player, no only because you can't see it's your own fault. But because you claim the gaming mechanic was badly implemented which is not the case, but rather, your lack of strategy.


Alright, let's change the analogy to say you're going to be attacked, but you have no idea what you're going to be attacked with. Beast killer against cavalry or archers against flying units.

And no, I cannot always cover the spawn points 100% of the time. Otherwise I couldn't advance to any spawn position that is guarded by any enemies.


How about a better analogy. You're told at least one person in the vast hall is going to take up to eight steps towards you and, if you're in arms reach, try to punch you. The smart thing to do is just stand at least ten steps away from everyone in the room. Keep away from the edges of the map, or the forts, or the staircases, depending on the map, until the map runs out of reinforcements. It's common sense.


They don't come in on the edge of the map, they come 2-3 tiles in. there isn't enough space to go to.
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#44Darcos(Topic Creator)Posted 4/27/2013 12:53:15 PM
banjo kazooie posted...
Darcos posted...
monkeypahng posted...
Darcos posted...
monkeypahng posted...
You're just a terrible player TC.

The whole point of an ambush/reinforcements is to catch the opposing army of guard. Ignoring the fact that they downright announce it. Maybe you should go play casual/newcomer mode since you obviously don't know how to play.

You might as well complain about why the game targets your weak units and kills them.



I could also announce someone is going to throw a rock at you in a room with several people around you, but not tell who it is and then say you suck since you couldn't even dodge with a warning since you had no idea who the thrower would be.


Well, actually. Your analogy is flawed since the circumstances surrounding them is not the same. Whilst you don't even need to dodge the attack but just survive it, which shouldn't be a problem if you took the necessary precautions.

Whilst you're a terrible player, no only because you can't see it's your own fault. But because you claim the gaming mechanic was badly implemented which is not the case, but rather, your lack of strategy.


Alright, let's change the analogy to say you're going to be attacked, but you have no idea what you're going to be attacked with. Beast killer against cavalry or archers against flying units.

And no, I cannot always cover the spawn points 100% of the time. Otherwise I couldn't advance to any spawn position that is guarded by any enemies.


How about a better analogy. You're told at least one person in the vast hall is going to take up to eight steps towards you and, if you're in arms reach, try to punch you. The smart thing to do is just stand at least ten steps away from everyone in the room. Keep away from the edges of the map, or the forts, or the staircases, depending on the map, until the map runs out of reinforcements. It's common sense.


And let's make it more accurate in the games context: you need to go through a hallway with those people in it. you also need to stop every once in a while to push someone since if you're next to them they will push you. You can't always be out of their reach on your way through the hallway.
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#45MunchkinatorPosted 4/27/2013 1:00:10 PM
VirusLord posted...
There are a couple of maps (Cervantes and Aversa) where enemy units simply appear from the edge of the map, rather than forts/stairs/warp circles, where you won't be able to know precisely where they're coming from until its too late. And there's nothing worse than an enemy Bow Knight spawning with just enough range to OHKO your fliers. Honestly, that's the thing that bugs me most about reinforcements, is when they spawn with particularly deadly weapons, or more range than expected (assassins with +1 move and a silver bow are also bad offenders in this regard).

My favorite example is Laurent's paralogue. Huge armies of decent-stat fliers spawning from everywhere on the map with literally 0 warning. Especially on a desert map, you CAN'T just "move out of the way" with most units, desert tiles slow them down too much. The map is perfectly doable, especially if you only bring decent-stat characters, but it's still an atrocious mechanic.
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#46HonzouPosted 4/27/2013 1:09:18 PM
Milennin posted...
Lol, just got Mirabelle killed by the 3 Wyvern reinforcements in one of the early missions. They came without warning. Felt cheap...


You mean that when Cordelia enter the map, and warned everyone of the possible threat that was following her not count as a warning of impending enemy units?

Do mind me saying this... are you daft, sir?!
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#47arvilinoPosted 4/27/2013 1:31:21 PM
Munchkinator posted...
VirusLord posted...
There are a couple of maps (Cervantes and Aversa) where enemy units simply appear from the edge of the map, rather than forts/stairs/warp circles, where you won't be able to know precisely where they're coming from until its too late. And there's nothing worse than an enemy Bow Knight spawning with just enough range to OHKO your fliers. Honestly, that's the thing that bugs me most about reinforcements, is when they spawn with particularly deadly weapons, or more range than expected (assassins with +1 move and a silver bow are also bad offenders in this regard).

My favorite example is Laurent's paralogue. Huge armies of decent-stat fliers spawning from everywhere on the map with literally 0 warning. Especially on a desert map, you CAN'T just "move out of the way" with most units, desert tiles slow them down too much. The map is perfectly doable, especially if you only bring decent-stat characters, but it's still an atrocious mechanic.


Laurent's isn't such a big deal, considering the fliers only appear during the last wave, if you don't want to engage those reinforcements you simply clear the map except the boss, visit the first two villages and clear the map of the Barbarians and Berserker reinforcements, then position your units so in one turn you visit the last village, pick up the Goddess Staff and kill the Boss ending the chapter.
#48cybermasterePosted 4/27/2013 4:42:23 PM
I played every "non Japanese only" FE (including the 6th actually, played with english patch...), so I'm used to the reinforcement system.
But as someone said, the basic of an ambush is to... catch the ennemy off guard...
I'd like to see in a real war, some hidden sniper guy yelling "Hey! I'm over heeeere, I'm gonna shoot you down now, is that okay with you?" ... (no comment..).
But yeah, for those maps in which you're afraid to leave your weak units at the mercy of the ennemy reinf. Why not advancing your units in a mass? I mean, like 5-6 offensive surrounding your weak one? (not even mentionning Pair Up)...
And, admitting your units could be that weak to withstand/dodge (sorry for my english spelling, not native english...) a hit, why not buying the "ennemy box" (I don't know english name of those) which make an ennemy group pop on the map and you farm xp with your units in need of xp...
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#49Darcos(Topic Creator)Posted 4/28/2013 2:35:48 AM
If you want to talk realism you could ask why your army always fights with 15 guys when you have way more ready to fight and yet they're just left to sit in their tents.
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#50perfectchaos83Posted 4/28/2013 2:40:10 AM
I always figured that the rest of the roster took care of unseen fodder.
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