Why do people hate lethality?

#21Rev0luti0nN0w(Topic Creator)Posted 6/18/2013 9:08:28 AM
I_eat_tables posted...
Disclaimer: I don't know postgame extremely well. All I know is offence and ORKOing is usually not an issue. Some of the following claims are following from assumptions made from that belief.

The two main reasons are that Lethality's activation rate is bad, and it doesn't really do anything skills like Luna, Astra or Aether don't, for twice or four times the activation rate.

Let's assume for now you're looking at postgame. Your units should easily have the stats to be doing massive damage to most enemies - four hits from your front person and six-eight from the back with brave weapons (six if they miss a dual strike oppertunity). Even if you aren't using Braves, it's still 6 hits total. On two/four of those attacks, you have chances for skills to activate. Astra's 2.5 times damage + critical is usually going to be enough to tip the scale. Aether's Luna + attack will almost always be enough. Luna might not quite be enough, but you're more likely to get two Lunas than you are to get one Lethality by a significant margin (numbers below).

Even if you have say a Hero with +4 skill (50), full rally (60), Limit Break (70), pair up and other assorted bonuses (say... 80, that's also a nice number to work with), you're looking at barely a 1/5 activation rate. If you're using a brave weapon and doubling, that's about a 59% chance you activate it. Sound good? Not really. If you need Lethality to kill an enemy, you're going to have problems. Perhaps it's best use is killing an enemy before they can counterattack - but this only has a 36% chance of happening, far from reliable.

I mentioned Luna. What's the chance of two Lunas (assuming two Lunas is enough to kill anything)? 97.3%. No, seriously. What about Four Lunas - guaranteed to kill anything, pretty much? 41%. Lower than Lethality, but how many things actually need that? Three Lunas is 84.6%, much higher than Lethality. And if we assume two Lunas kills anything, getting those before the enemy attacks (i.e. 2/2) is 64% - higher than Lethality's total activation rate.

Now, comparing to Luna isn't necessarily a fair comparison - Luna's a very good postgame skill. And actually if we drop the skill down to say 60 (perhaps a little on the low side, but reasonable) those numbers start to change a little towards Lethality, although it's still Luna who wins.

TL;DR version: Lethality isn't reliable enough.

The fact it's negated by Dragonskin hardly helps either.


The problem I have with luna is that for some counter fighters, a few characters with high skill can take a large amount of health but not all, since they don't have as good strength, and then get pretty much all of their health drained.
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#22Rev0luti0nN0w(Topic Creator)Posted 6/18/2013 9:10:01 AM
BlueDryBones1 posted...
Rev0luti0nN0w posted...
BlueDryBones1 posted...
But once you have LB and all those high stats/skills then you wont need it to KO enemies easily and the enemies that matter in Apotheosis all have Dragonskin.

Its uses are only in SP to annoy.


You haven't played a map with 3-4 or more fighters with counter have you?


I play Lunatic+ :P I beat it once and am going through it again b/c of a file corruption.

Lunatic+ everyone can have Counter. Thats why you should just use 2 range weapons which are available for every weapon type in a buyable form at any part of the game. So long as your doubling you should have no problem taking down an enemy in 1 battle.

What if you Lethalitied a Counter+Miracle Entombed in EXPonential Growth? :P


Oh, I should also say, or ask, but what do you do when it's their turn to fight? Maybe I'm just very lucky with the RNG, but I have more luck against counter with lethality when they come to attack me.
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#23RDS1Posted 6/18/2013 9:22:58 AM
Rev0luti0nN0w posted...
The problem I have with luna is that for some counter fighters, a few characters with high skill can take a large amount of health but not all, since they don't have as good strength, and then get pretty much all of their health drained.


...that's why you find the enemies with Counter beforehand and attack them at range. It's not hard to figure out.
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#24MasterTurtlePosted 6/18/2013 9:35:32 AM
its trigger rate is tiny and Astra/Aether will usually kill with double the activation rate.

Ignis/Luna have a good chance of resulting in a kill too if you're doubling, except they activate a whopping 4 times more often and Sol keeps you alive which is even better.
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#25KarianaPosted 6/18/2013 2:36:30 PM
Lethality is an overall bad skill on every level.

During normal play: It's activation rate is simply too low. At Skill/4, for most of the game, you're looking at a less than 10% chance to ever activate, making it totally unreliable as a means of dealing with enemies.

During end/postgame play: The activation rate is still too low (even with Limit Breaker, it's nearly impossible to break 15% for activation). Further, too many enemies have Dragonskin, which totally negates the skill, particularly during Apotheosis. And most enemies that don't have Dragonskin are likely to be killed just by normal attacks in one or two shots anyway, making it simply a nifty animation, rather than a worthwhile skill.

Compared to other skills: Luna and Ignis activate four times as often and can reliably deal extremely heavy or lethal damage to a target. Aether and Astra activate twice as often, and also reliably deal heavy or lethal damage, and in Aether's case, also provides healing. Sol activates four times as often, but while it doesn't deal additional damage, it does have the benefit of healing. Vengeance activates eight times as often, and can situationally deal ridiculous levels of damage.

Best use of Lethality: A dedicated build on Lucina or Chrom's son, using Rightful King. Rightful King provides more benefit to Lethality than any other skill, as it's worth effectively 40 Skill for Lethality. Even at that, it's still a weak skill, and should only be used during the main game when you're not really grinding, otherwise there are a number of better uses for that skill slot. Lethality should never, ever be used without Rightful King outside of Streetpass Trolling or amusement value as a fun "super-crit".
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#26MAtt5TERPosted 6/18/2013 10:14:13 PM(edited)
From: Kariana | #025
Lethality should never, ever be used without Rightful King outside of Streetpass


Lethality shouldn't be used even with Rightful King outside of StreetPass. Yes, even 42% instant KO should not be used outside of StreetPass.
The most important factor for a skill is reliability: who cares how powerful a skill is if it doesn't activate when you want it to? If it doesn't consistently save you when you need it, it's a waste of a skill slot. Would you rather have a skill that grants +5 damage 100% of the time? Or a skill that grants +100000 damage 1% of the time? The latter grants more damage overall, but it's so inconsistent; you may not even need that attack boost time that it does activate!

Thus, Lethality is underpowered for in-game.

On the other hand, Lethality is extremely useful for StreetPass teams, where even one KO is game-changing and auto-wins against Classic players. Here, Lethality is top tier.
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#27SazukeEXPosted 6/18/2013 10:13:18 PM
Unreliable as heck.
Sometimes I run it alongside a skirmishers Luna and Olivia always has it.
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#28Huff n puff 20Posted 6/18/2013 10:17:56 PM
BlueDryBones1 posted...

What if you Lethalitied a Counter+Miracle Entombed in EXPonential Growth? :P


Only the L30 ones have Counter.
Those guys have 65 HP.

You'd take 64 damage from the counter.
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#29RaijectraPosted 6/18/2013 10:18:08 PM
Yes, even 42% instant KO should not be used outside of StreetPass.


42% is quite reliable. It's almost 50%.
#30MAtt5TERPosted 6/18/2013 10:27:48 PM
From: Raijectra | #029
42% is quite reliable. It's almost 50%.


No. This is ridiculous.
50% success rate is horribly low for anything in this game, especially when Luna most likely KOs anyway at 84% activation rate.

Pretend Lethality works against Apotheosis Anna. Even then, are you willing to gamble the 2 hours you've spent reaching Anna just to have a 50% shot at clearing the map?
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