If it weren't for the stinger... (Major Spoilers)

#51Huff n puff 20(Topic Creator)Posted 6/26/2013 4:53:36 AM
banjo kazooie posted...
Huff n puff 20 posted...
The Ylisseans only really are like "what?!" when it's starting, then Aversa says her line and that's... that.


Do I really need to repeat it?

Lissa
Let's ask 'em! Um, excuse me, sir? ...Sir?

Villager (Note: scared face.)
...the appointed...time...
...to the Dragon's...Table...
...our prayers...Grima...

Lissa
Riiiiiight... I'll just be backing away slowly then...


...

Frederick
Validar has moved to a great altar to Grima known as the Dragon's Table. What's more, it seems all the Grimleal in Plegia are headed there as well. It's as if they're being drawn by some unseen force...

Chrom
Any idea what it all means?

Frederick
Who can say, sire? They speak only gibberish and plod on as if possessed.


Repeating it doesn't change anything there. It's never challenged once Aversa explains things. There is little reason to believe anything otherwise.
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#52banjo kazooiePosted 6/26/2013 5:00:17 AM
Huff n puff 20 posted...
banjo kazooie posted...
Huff n puff 20 posted...
The Ylisseans only really are like "what?!" when it's starting, then Aversa says her line and that's... that.


Do I really need to repeat it?

Lissa
Let's ask 'em! Um, excuse me, sir? ...Sir?

Villager (Note: scared face.)
...the appointed...time...
...to the Dragon's...Table...
...our prayers...Grima...

Lissa
Riiiiiight... I'll just be backing away slowly then...


...

Frederick
Validar has moved to a great altar to Grima known as the Dragon's Table. What's more, it seems all the Grimleal in Plegia are headed there as well. It's as if they're being drawn by some unseen force...

Chrom
Any idea what it all means?

Frederick
Who can say, sire? They speak only gibberish and plod on as if possessed.


Repeating it doesn't change anything there. It's never challenged once Aversa explains things. There is little reason to believe anything otherwise.


Wait, so the last statement said, even if it contradicts everything so far in the scene, is automatically correct and unquestionable? That's a weird way to assess the validity of statements, purely chronologically with no logical analysis. Nothing in the scene I quoted makes any sense if they're willing, yet because one person says in one line that they are, that's completely irrelevant? Yeah, I'm done arguing, you're just going to ignore any contrary evidence, despite the volume outweighing the supporting evidence.
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That's strange because reading it gave me Shonen level powers, a spiked hair cut, and Lupus. - SwordMasterEX
#53Huff n puff 20(Topic Creator)Posted 6/26/2013 5:27:01 AM
banjo kazooie posted...
Nothing in the scene I quoted makes any sense if they're willing


Except for the fact that it actually does.

BTW: Mecca. Look it up. Those who make that pilgrimage often do act like the Grimleal do in the scene and yet, they're totally willing.
So do plenty of suicide cults.

banjo kazooie posted...
Yeah, I'm done arguing, you're just going to ignore any contrary evidence, despite the volume outweighing the supporting evidence.


You haven't provided any contrary evidence that actually contradicts anything.
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#54VirusLordPosted 6/26/2013 7:35:34 AM
Huff n puff 20 posted...
VirusLord posted...

Also... What makes you think it would be so hard to find the right vessel? The right vessel was already found in MU, and given that MU has a kid (or two) to carry on the bloodline... It's far from unlikely that one of MU's descendants will also end up being eligible as a vessel. All it takes is one kidnapping and stealing the conveniently-completed Fire Emblem, and Grima's free again.


Because there's little reason to not believe Validar. The Grimleal had been specifically breeding to attain the necessary qualities to be a vessel for Grima for "countless generations". This is not like FE4 where some convenient incest will recreate another vessel. Grima is significantly harder to create a vessel for than Loptyr. Morgan is already far enough to be completely unconsidered, and it's only going to get worse from there.


Where are you pulling this Morgan thing from, exactly? I can't remember Morgan ever being even considered for the task, on account of every child character except for Lucina essentially being ignored by the plot. Validar doesn't show any sign that he even knows Morgan exists, let alone taking the time to analyze Morgan's suitability.
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"Courage is the magic that turns dreams into reality." - Emil, ToS:DotNW
#55AphophPosted 6/27/2013 8:54:30 AM(edited)
VirusLord posted...
Huff n puff 20 posted...
VirusLord posted...

Also... What makes you think it would be so hard to find the right vessel? The right vessel was already found in MU, and given that MU has a kid (or two) to carry on the bloodline... It's far from unlikely that one of MU's descendants will also end up being eligible as a vessel. All it takes is one kidnapping and stealing the conveniently-completed Fire Emblem, and Grima's free again.


Because there's little reason to not believe Validar. The Grimleal had been specifically breeding to attain the necessary qualities to be a vessel for Grima for "countless generations". This is not like FE4 where some convenient incest will recreate another vessel. Grima is significantly harder to create a vessel for than Loptyr. Morgan is already far enough to be completely unconsidered, and it's only going to get worse from there.


Where are you pulling this Morgan thing from, exactly? I can't remember Morgan ever being even considered for the task, on account of every child character except for Lucina essentially being ignored by the plot. Validar doesn't show any sign that he even knows Morgan exists, let alone taking the time to analyze Morgan's suitability.


Not only that, but he/she's not always an only child. Going by what we know of Holy Blood, only 1 child among siblings gets Major if only 1 parent has Major while the other doesn't have any of the other parent's Holy Blood. So it's possible that if say, Morgan and Noire are sisters, Noire could have Major Grima while Morgan gets Minor.
#56OsrangerPosted 6/27/2013 9:13:55 AM
This is a rather poor argument. Grima is an ageless being. He is immortal. If time is no longer a factor, it is not a question of if, but a question of when. Grima can wait for an eternity, so it does not matter how slim the chance of him rising is, he will rise. If there is only a .00000000000...000000001 percent chance of him rising again will ever come to pass will ever come every day, eventually the day will come. It is the inevitability of if you keep rolling a die long enough, you will get the number you are looking for.

Just because it is not likely for the threat to reappear for several generations, someone in Robin's family, if he/she figured out who he is, he/she may want the power and reignite the grimeal. That is one way, if the grimeal are destroyed, for them to come back. Your plan to kill all grimeal is a short term plan, and one that would not prevent everything.

Finally, the grimeal is a cult. The people develop a cult mentality meaning, even if they want to leave and know that the cult isn't good for their health, they can't. They are psychologically trapped there.
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The surest way not to lose is to not play, but where's the fun in that?
#57InfiniSephirothPosted 6/27/2013 9:53:49 AM
First of all:

Greater love has no one than this, that someone lay down his life for his friends.

I know if I thought there was a chance I could save everyone I loved and the whole world by dying I would take it. Or at least I like to think I would.

Second in a game where time travel and multiple timelines eists does it really matter what option you pick? If the cultists and/or Grima find a way to go to the past (or future if he's sealed) or a different timeline to free Grima it won't make a difference.
#58TIFFDPosted 6/27/2013 10:08:37 AM
Robin:
You once worshipped Grima, correct? As a member of the Grimleal?
Gangrel:
Pah, those wrinkled old warts with their dusty tomes? I was Grimleal in name only. Course, it was the faith of the realm, so I knew most of its rituals.
Robin:
Religion can be a powerful tool for uniting people behind a single cause. I wager Aversa used it to convince your subjects to take up arms?
Gangrel:
...Perhaps. But in the end, I'd say she used me as much as anyone.
Robin:
And what did the people of Plegia really think of the faith?
Gangrel:
Think? Ha! They DIDN'T think! Between my iron-fisted rule and Aversa's inquisitions, they had no choice about it. ... But as I said, it was a cruel time.
Robin:
Your people were cowed by your political might, but the temples offered solace...
Gangrel:
Ah, yes. The solace of the damned.

It's hard to be truly considered willing when you're not given the opportunity to take another path.

Also, given Aversa's position as a... 'charismatic' manipulator and the fact that she acts very much like the high priest(ess) of a fanatic cult, I would very much take her words with a grain of salt. I wouldn't be surprised if she weren't somewhat delusional. After all, she WAS Brainwashed by Validar...
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