How would you feel if the magic triangle returned...

#11Bronze_StuffPosted 7/18/2013 1:22:29 PM
IlluminaZer0 posted...
Strawberry_Eggs posted...
With more pronounced differences in Resistances, then I would care about the magic circle. I found that the damage never made much of a difference as magic users tend to have high Resistance.

This.

Nosferatu also needs to be unpurchaseable or gone. The only reason it's so obviously OP now is:

1) We have a Dark Mage candidate that isn't mediocre or just bad. Namely MU. Tharja's accuracy is a big problem in harder difficulties, and Henry joins pretty late and can't double many enemies. Even the better Nosferatu candidates (such as Linde) were so fragile as to make Nosferatu tanking a gamble.

2) Nosferatu can be easily and cheaply purchased.


Weight being gone is the biggest reason it's overpowered. In other ones like 7, you only wanted to use it at key moments, it wasn't your go-to spell.
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#12IlluminaZer0Posted 7/18/2013 1:30:13 PM(edited)
BTW I like OPs proposed changes.

I also think making Bow units more viable by either making 3 range more common or standard would also indirectly make things more diverse as well.

Bronze_Stuff posted...
Weight being gone is the biggest reason it's overpowered. In other ones like 7, you only wanted to use it at key moments, it wasn't your go-to spell.

Weight/CON is a messy way to balance anything. It has a male bias and merely reinforces that Nosferatu weakness depended on Dark Mages being mediocre or horrible (Give them sufficient CON and suddenly they are OP again). Just look at Canas (mediocre), Knoll (horrible), or Ewan(horrible). We can also look at Linde and see that Nosferatu tanking can be balanced without needing Weight/CON.

Although if you grinded Ewan up, suddenly Nosferatu tanking becomes god mode once again...

And also, laughable balance with Steel Weapons. Eliwood using Durandal was always a pretty bad joke as well.

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#13CreepGnomePosted 7/18/2013 1:57:19 PM
Julia had no problems tanking with Rezire in FE4.
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#14guedesbrawlPosted 7/18/2013 2:07:11 PM
IlluminaZer0 posted...
Strawberry_Eggs posted...
With more pronounced differences in Resistances, then I would care about the magic circle. I found that the damage never made much of a difference as magic users tend to have high Resistance.

This.

Nosferatu also needs to be unpurchaseable or gone. The only reason it's so obviously OP now is:

1) We have a Dark Mage candidate that isn't mediocre or just bad. Namely MU. Tharja's accuracy is a big problem in harder difficulties, and Henry joins pretty late and can't double many enemies. Even the better Nosferatu candidates (such as Linde) were so fragile as to make Nosferatu tanking a gamble.

2) Nosferatu can be easily and cheaply purchased.


no, it's lack of WT. We would need a Weight system to make it balanced, like in previous FEs
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#15IlluminaZer0Posted 7/18/2013 2:17:50 PM
guedesbrawl posted...
no, it's lack of WT. We would need a Weight system to make it balanced, like in previous FEs

Clearly, Linde could trivialize FE11 and 12 with weightless Nosferatu right?

And Nosferatu having weight certainly stopped Juila from becoming a tank.

WT depends on the character being sufficiently bad for it to factor in. That Canas was comically mediocre and Knoll horrifically bad just makes this obvious.

And if CON = STR then it's even more of an abomination.
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#16Misha-HeartPosted 7/18/2013 2:24:28 PM
IlluminaZer0 posted...
Clearly, Linde could trivialize FE11 and 12 with weightless Nosferatu right?

There wasn't Nosferatu in 11, but Linde can't solo the game with Nosferatu on harder difficulties because her defense cap is terrible and speed caps matter a lot in the endgame so she won't be able to heal off everything quickly.
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#17IlluminaZer0Posted 7/18/2013 2:35:55 PM(edited)
Misha-Heart posted...
There wasn't Nosferatu in 11, but Linde can't solo the game with Nosferatu on harder difficulties because her defense cap is terrible and speed caps matter a lot in the endgame so she won't be able to heal off everything quickly.

Whoops. I was thinking back to my FE12 game and just assumed that Linde had Nosferatu in FE11 as well. <_<

Just felt as though Aura + Nosferatu/Resire were thematically "her" weapons. Especially as Nosferatu was a female only weapon in FE12.

http://fireemblem.wikia.com/wiki/Nosferatu
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#18kaonohiokalaPosted 7/18/2013 2:37:32 PM(edited)
Would the mages split into different categories again? (Fire/Wind/Thunder Mages?)

EDIT: o wait nvm, you meant the original magic triangle.
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#19Bronze_StuffPosted 7/18/2013 2:41:15 PM
IlluminaZer0 posted...
guedesbrawl posted...
no, it's lack of WT. We would need a Weight system to make it balanced, like in previous FEs

Clearly, Linde could trivialize FE11 and 12 with weightless Nosferatu right?

And Nosferatu having weight certainly stopped Juila from becoming a tank.

WT depends on the character being sufficiently bad for it to factor in. That Canas was comically mediocre and Knoll horrifically bad just makes this obvious.

And if CON = STR then it's even more of an abomination.


There's nothing wrong with Nosferatu tanking. The issue with it being weightless is that there is no disadvantage to using Nosferatu. There's never a reason to take the ish off. If you make it stupidly inaccurate, then you have FE8 Luna all over again (where the only things you want to use it on you can't freaking hit). Canas is actually okay so I don't see how this is a problem. Knoll isn't actually bad. As he's the perfect level to be promoted into a summoner and that and healing makes him more useful than units like Dolza, Ewan, Rachael, or Amelia.

There are many ways to balance Nosferatu

Weak power, Heavy, inaccurate, costly, rare. All of these are ways to balance Nosferatu. If they are going to make it as common as it is in this one, weight is clearly the best method of doing so because honestly, it's lame not being able to buy most dark magic.
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#20IlluminaZer0Posted 7/18/2013 2:48:55 PM
Bronze_Stuff posted...
There are many ways to balance Nosferatu

Weak power, Heavy, inaccurate, costly, rare. All of these are ways to balance Nosferatu. If they are going to make it as common as it is in this one, weight is clearly the best method of doing so because honestly, it's lame not being able to buy most dark magic.

None of the methods you suggest (aside from "heavy") requires WT. And none of the other methods would have implications on every other weapon and character in the game aside from WT.

Revamping the entire weapon and character system to simply balance one weapon? Seems like the real problem is the weapon.
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