Time for Lunatic, Pairing/Team comp advice

#1endgamecutterPosted 8/18/2013 4:47:07 PM
Well, I beat the game on Hard without much difficulty, and Lunatic+ sounds too annoying to have my min/max file on (plus I haven't even unlocked it yet) so instead I'm going to make my min/maxed postgame DLC focused file on Lunatic. Which means I need to figure some things out.

1: Pairings. My understanding here is that optimal pairings are

Chrom x Olivia/Maribelle (depending on whether or not Lucina is a lead)
Sully x Donnel
Stahl x Cordelia
Fredrick x Cherche
Gaius x Tharja
Vaike x Nowi
Panne x Kellam
Lissa X Ricken
Miriel X Gregor
Sumia x Henry
Maribelle x Lon'qu (assuming she's not with Chrom)

and some others I'm probably forgetting atm.

I don't really understand much of the optimization behind it beyond maximizing Galeforcers, but beyond making sure I get the pairings right, I'm not overly concerned with that. My main worry here is which units I'm actually going to use. Take Cherche for example. I want to use her because <3 Wyverns, and I didn't get a chance to on my first run. Her optimal partner however, is Fred, who I'm pretty sure falls on the useless beyond early game side of Jeigans. In the same vein, Panne is freaking amazing for the campaign (which, to be fair, is my primary concern at the moment seeing as this is going to be my first foray into that actual 'hard' modes of fire emblem, despite following the series since Blazing Sword) but is paired with Kellam, and armor knight who is likely to never see the light of usage beyond early game a support buffer. Will this effect me, since I'm likely to deprive those two of their S rank support partner? Will those two actually grow into worthwhile units without a painful amount of grinding/second seals?

Also MU and Lucina. I'm not sure what to do with either of these. I've been advised that +def-luck is the best setup for Lunatic(+), but I'm not sure how accurate that is. Also, it tells me nothing of what to turn MU into (I assume a mage of some kind, but I did that first run...) Lucina is also a source of confusion. I understand that for postgame 3rd gen Morgan is better, and for that I've been considering going MUxLucina, but I've heard that's supposed to be awful. Also, it makes me very confused as to what to do with Lucina. With access to Galeforce and Dual strike/Support, Lucina will be better at both leading and supporting than MU (or whoever I pair her with, probably). So what should I do with the two of them?

Sorry for the long post that's been answered a bajillion times, but I haven't been able to find the answers, oddly enough. Thanks in advance.
#2Flame552Posted 8/18/2013 4:55:25 PM
Well, that's a pretty big wall o' text, but let's break it down to some basic things:

Optimized pairings are optimized towards a particular goal.
For instance, Maribelle!Lucina is optimal if you plan on using Lucina as a sage. If you are planning on making use of her infinite-use sword however, that pairing isn't really what you want to do.

There's also the odd thing about how you're asking questions to minimize grinding...on a min/max file? Grinding is sort of the point there.

And lastly, the point of optimized pairings isn't "these two units do well with each other". It's to make the best possible child, then get rid of the lesser parent. And even then, you have to know what class and skills you want on each character beforehand.
#3Misha-HeartPosted 8/18/2013 5:00:05 PM
Maribelle!Lucina is only better for a total of one map(every other map is pretty easy at max caps). It isn't for the fact that she herself is any good, it's mostly for beating Apotheosis without Limit Break with Ricken!Laurent!Morgan. Chrom!Brady is also only good for breeding, not the fact that he himself is good(although Brady gets plenty on his own).

Libra!Owain could be arguably better than Ricken!Owain if you're willing to go with the Vantage+Vengeance combo. If you don't go that route, Ricken!Owain is better in every other situation.
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Yuri/Shoujo-Ai is the purest love. No questions asked.
Oh Poor soul who has lost their love, I will make your heart race once more!
#4I_eat_tablesPosted 8/18/2013 5:02:15 PM
You can't go wrong with the children, honestly. Optimal varies depending on who you ask. Some try to maximise the potential of every kid, some try to maximise only a few key pairs, others try to optimise hair colours. All of these approaches are pretty valid. Some make postgame go from 'lol joke' to 'lol double joke' but that's about it. In general, I'd go through each kid and try and work out skills you'd really like them to have. Then from the parents that can give those combinations, try to pick ones that give the nicest mods.

So what's your plan for going through the main game? Are you going to go through with minimal grinding and then do everything postgame? Or just play through the campaign as a convenience to get grinding started? If it's the former, Fred as Cherche's pair up is fine. He won't be amazing, but get him to level 15 for Dual Guard+ and he's instantly an adequate pair up at worst. But either way, in game, having A supports instead of S supports is NOT a huge deal. Dual Strike isn't reliable enough anyway, so while losing 10% hurts it's not a major problem (besides you'd be better off making the front unit constantly better than worrying about the back one, in general). Losing +5% to hit (sometimes avoid/crit/dodge) is pretty minor. And 3% Dual Guard, oh well. Not major.

+DEF -LUK is the generally named best setup because it makes the early game much easier. +HP is also good, and -SKL is actually often suggested nowadays instead of -LUK. But assuming you're playing on Casual, you SHOULD be able to manage those early chapters (after which the game gets much easier, and you can grind) with a preferred setup instead without too much issue. Heck even on Classic there's strategies online. Avatar is decent as anything, he can kinda do whatever it is you want on your team. Lucina isn't really a good postgame partner - Mods are really all that matter to Morgan, and Lucina's don't get beyond 'meh'. On top of that you can't marry Lucina if she's your mum, and Morgan x Lucina is pretty nice (again not necessary). Note Dual Support is pretty worthless even on a support - she has better options, such as Dual Guard & Charm. Really though, whatever you do with Morgan is good. Just try and pass him mods good for whatever his role will be, choosing parent appropriately.
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"When playing a game, the goal is to win, but it is the goal that is important, not the winning." -Reiner Knizia
#5endgamecutter(Topic Creator)Posted 8/18/2013 5:06:01 PM
Flame552 posted...
Well, that's a pretty big wall o' text, but let's break it down to some basic things:

Optimized pairings are optimized towards a particular goal.
For instance, Maribelle!Lucina is optimal if you plan on using Lucina as a sage. If you are planning on making use of her infinite-use sword however, that pairing isn't really what you want to do.

There's also the odd thing about how you're asking questions to minimize grinding...on a min/max file? Grinding is sort of the point there.

And lastly, the point of optimized pairings isn't "these two units do well with each other". It's to make the best possible child, then get rid of the lesser parent. And even then, you have to know what class and skills you want on each character beforehand.


to be fair, most of the wall is from how I spaced the pairing info :P

I understand I'm going to have to grind a great deal to max out everyone, I was mainly wondering about whether or not it would wind up being worth it to spend any time grinding up Fred/Kellam/possibly others depending on how main of these pairings will actually perform well as groups for the main game (I suppose I could just settle for A rank supports main game though)

Incidentally, that leaves me wondering. Which 1st gen units ARE going to be worth sticking with for the campaign like this? I don't have the DLC YET< but I'm fairly sure there are more kids (+Avatar, I assume, since he's got an S rank with someone, and possibly olivia for dancing) than will fill up my roster for DLC, but until I get them and grind them to power, I'm going to need some people who aren't going to be screwed by their spouse choice.

As for Lucina, I assume going with the infinite sword is the superior option, since she can't reliably maintain Brave tomes without armsthrift. Am I right in that regard?
#6Misha-HeartPosted 8/18/2013 5:16:19 PM
endgamecutter posted...
As for Lucina, I assume going with the infinite sword is the superior option, since she can't reliably maintain Brave tomes without armsthrift. Am I right in that regard?

No Armthrift doesn't mean someone's automatically unusable. It just means you need to buy more. Armthrift is for convenience, not actual game-changing since 5 item slots exist for a reason and not one pair is going to do everything.

The Parallel Falchion becomes useless later on since it's not a Brave weapon, but alright for a finishing blow weapon.
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Yuri/Shoujo-Ai is the purest love. No questions asked.
Oh Poor soul who has lost their love, I will make your heart race once more!
#7Flame552Posted 8/18/2013 5:23:11 PM
endgamecutter posted...
Flame552 posted...
Well, that's a pretty big wall o' text, but let's break it down to some basic things:

Optimized pairings are optimized towards a particular goal.
For instance, Maribelle!Lucina is optimal if you plan on using Lucina as a sage. If you are planning on making use of her infinite-use sword however, that pairing isn't really what you want to do.

There's also the odd thing about how you're asking questions to minimize grinding...on a min/max file? Grinding is sort of the point there.

And lastly, the point of optimized pairings isn't "these two units do well with each other". It's to make the best possible child, then get rid of the lesser parent. And even then, you have to know what class and skills you want on each character beforehand.


to be fair, most of the wall is from how I spaced the pairing info :P

I understand I'm going to have to grind a great deal to max out everyone, I was mainly wondering about whether or not it would wind up being worth it to spend any time grinding up Fred/Kellam/possibly others depending on how main of these pairings will actually perform well as groups for the main game (I suppose I could just settle for A rank supports main game though)

Incidentally, that leaves me wondering. Which 1st gen units ARE going to be worth sticking with for the campaign like this? I don't have the DLC YET< but I'm fairly sure there are more kids (+Avatar, I assume, since he's got an S rank with someone, and possibly olivia for dancing) than will fill up my roster for DLC, but until I get them and grind them to power, I'm going to need some people who aren't going to be screwed by their spouse choice.

As for Lucina, I assume going with the infinite sword is the superior option, since she can't reliably maintain Brave tomes without armsthrift. Am I right in that regard?


This is where we get into the opinionated stuff that the posters above mentioned.

If you are going to min/max, you need the DLC.
The EXP-grinding DLC works to a point, but your real grinding map is going to be the map you get the Paragon skill on (That's the 2x exp gain skill) for a long while, with you tanking on top of a fort as 50 enemies kill themselves in skipped enemy-phases.

There are 13 kids to get in Fire Emblem and the DLC doesn't add more. The DLC does add a lot of spotpass-like characters, only with (arguably) better artworks and skills. There's also the spotpass six, but I assume you know about them.

The short answer for "What 1st Gen characters should stick around" is "All the Ones you Want to stick around".

Take, for example, Fredrick. He's a poor character mid-game not because of his personal maxed stat caps, but because of his stat growth percentages. If you want to make use of Fredrick, then there's no stopping you but a small (assuming you have the necessary DLC) time commitment.

It's said that any child is capable of doing a single parent's job better, and this is pretty much true. However, the difference in skill, quite frankly, in the vast majority of cases is entirely negligible outside of a single map.

Ergo, use who you like, marry your OTP's, and maximize whatever skill you feel is most important. For many people that's galeforce. For other's, that's Vantage+Vengeance and for others still that's armshift.

Also, putting Demoiselle on all the male kids is hilarious.
#8endgamecutter(Topic Creator)Posted 8/18/2013 6:22:02 PM
Well in that case, I suppose Chrom x Olivia to save Brady from getting screwed. Final team comp wise... assuming 12 party slots, I don't get all the kids no matter what, so I can technically have at least one G-Force per pair, which makes things a bit more malleable. I'll probably want a couple double Gale Force pairs for maximum skirmishing power, and some VV tanks to serve as a front line the Skirmishers can hide behind.

Olivia and Chrom are in for Dancer utility and Chrom because even if he isn't forced, access to convoy might be useful if anyone needs to grab an elixir for emergency healing, or something. Although I might replace Chrom with a Staffbot for emergency healing independant of Olivia, at the cost of leaving them unpaired and at risk... That leaves 10

I'm fairly sure anyone with access to Galeforce can be made into a flyer of some kind to gain access to maximize skirmishing capabilities, but VV is in higher demand since I don't think there are that many possible Dark mages in the children (Libra and Henry pass it, Severa and Noire have automatically) and Myrmidon is rarer since it needs to mix with those 4 somehow. I suppose I'll got 3 VV tanks and 2 Skirmishers. Which of the characters would be best suited to which role? I'm pretty sure Cynthia's best as a Skirmisher, and Morgan can do whatever because Morgan. Severa works as a VV if I keep her with Stahl, but I'd rather not since my log already has Stahl x Cord at A rank and its been a boring support. Beyond that, I'm unsure. Any ideas?
#9Flame552Posted 8/18/2013 9:13:34 PM
You're typically forced to use Chrom on every map, excluding skirmishes I believe.

The primary purpose of the dancer class was so the player could focus and hoard the experience gain to a smaller amount of units. This is somewhat moot in Awakening, what with the ability to grind. Olivia can still be Dancer if you want, but she's actually very good in other classes, such as Swordmaster.

I can give you some of my preferred OTPs or combos, but there isn't really that much I can give without knowing what you're looking for, but:

1) Sully X Gaius : Gaius is the only male who can be classed as a Hero but doesn't actually pass down Hero. Therefore, I pass down Sol to Kjelle along with Pegasus Knight for galeforce and mounted flier is needed. Along with getting everything under the sun from Sully, I consider this to be one great version of Kjelle.

2) Maribelle X Donnel : It's argued a lot on this board about what character is hardest to mess up; Brady is typically the winner of these debates. He literally gets everything he could want from his mother, so all I do is throw Donnel at her for great legal justice(love the supports, and hick-country savant with high court noble appeals to me ) and an armshift-Sage/Healer.

3) Sumia X Henry : The only Sumia pairing where she ISN'T in complete control of the conversation; only Henry can take away her momentum. This let's me make Cynthia an even better Dark Flier.

4) Cordelia X Virion : Along with making the best-haired Severa, this pairing puts Cordelia across an entire ocean from Chrom and has her spend years fighting for her husbands honor; no NTR in this relationship at all, thank you very much. From Cordelia, Severa get's access to Armshift, Hero, Galeforce, Sorceror.... she literally needs nothing else. Therefore, I like going with Virion so I can give her access to all the breaker skills in the game.

5) Cherche X Stahl : It's hard not to like how zealous Stahl tries in this support. Gives a near monochrome looking son, which looks great and access to some nice treats. Gerome is typically shadowed by the other children because of his lack of galeforce, but he makes not only a good pair-up character with what he can get from Cherche and Stahl, but is my go to flier to give boots to. Between being a flying unit, boots, Deliverer, and Movement +1, he can get anyone I need anywhere on the map.

6) Tharja X Gerome : Get's you a Noire without galeforce, but also get's you the best physical Noire you can possibly get alone with VV + armshift and other goodies.

7) Male MU X Nowi : Dragons. An Army of Dragons, led by two near unkillable kids capable of learning all female-assessable skills in the game.

My other typical pairings don't really have any means to an end, so I'll exclude those.
#10MAtt5TERPosted 8/18/2013 10:28:52 PM
Misha-Heart posted...
Maribelle!Lucina is only better for a total of one map


Being the best on the hardest map makes her the best on every map. Every postgame map is won the same way, after all.
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