Are my pairings any good?

#31SazukeEXPosted 9/10/2013 3:45:54 PM(edited)
Heo please, I get it. You're jealous of me. There's no reason to hound me because you know my research and data is sound. Vaike!Kjelle has been proven time and again being much better than Donnel!Kjelle, this is fact. Vaike also is literally best used fathering Kjelle over any other child due to his restrictions. Nah benefits nowhere near as much from Vaike as Kjelle while Gaius benefits Nah much more than Kjelle.

WeirdRedGlow posted...
SazukeEX posted...
Not a very good list.

Vaike!Nah? Very bad pairing, one of her worse off pairings.

Nah's parents should ONLY be these, all of which are FAR better father for Nah.

Robin
Gaius
Gregor
Frederick
Kellam

Vaike should only be fathering Kjelle.


The entire list is bad because of one bad pairing? I could just not use Nah. Why is it so bad anyway? I'm not an expert on optimization.


Yes it is.

As I said.

Either you go all the way for Optimization or you don't do it at all. You didn't go all the way thus your list isn't good due to this.

Donnel!Kjelle hurts Kjelle that bad and is extremely wasteful. Donnel only gets any real use if he father's Noire and that's ONLY if Gaius or Gregor are taken up which they usually are as Nah wants Gaius more and Laurent wants Gregor more.
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#32HeoandReoPosted 9/10/2013 3:46:49 PM
SazukeEX posted...
I already explained how Vantage + Vengeance can bite you in the rear yet you refuse to acknowledge any of them. You have fooled yourself into thinking that having that makes you invincible. If that was the case than everyone would be saying "Oh, go Vantage+Vengeance for everyone! You can't die!" when far more experienced players know that isn't the case.


I'm not Carmine, but what I getting from him/her is that Vantage is good because it allows a unit to strike first and potentially grab a kill before the enemy can. (i.e. Celica's Gale frontliner, followed by Celica's Gale Dual Striker) Vantage does have to be activated first, though the upside is that it always activates, likewise with Vengeance assuming Limit Break. Pavise/Aegis and even stuff like Luna Sol are still kind of at the mercy of a character's Skill, though it's relatively consistent.

Although in the long run, pretty much no strategy makes you completely invincible on enemy phase which is what you're going for, (Luna+ chews through a lot of defenses) so either Pavise/Aegis or Vantage is good enough for me. They have their purposes.
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#33EndgamePosted 9/10/2013 3:53:49 PM
Sumia! Lucina

where I stopped reading, 0/10, etc.
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#34SummonearthPosted 9/10/2013 4:38:24 PM
Endgame posted...
Sumia! Lucina

where I stopped reading, 0/10, etc.


Oh stop it, it is not that terrible. Why are you acting like it is a death sentence that TC paired Sumia with Chrom?
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#35videospiritPosted 9/10/2013 5:36:59 PM
Vantage is pretty low value on a unit without a brave weapon or nosferatu/aversa's night, even with sol. They are guaranteed not to kill the person attacking them before said unit gets a chance to attack, so it's very unreliable at prolonging tanks lives. The skill is only useful to a tank if the enemies attack might kill you if you don't heal with sol in that case. And if your hp got low enough for vantage to activate in the first place, your sol wasn't doing enough to keep you alive much longer than vantage will extend you. It's useful for nosferatu/aversa's night since they have 100% activation, but you still aren't killing things before they can attack you at all. AS+2 is probably about as good since +2 def/res, sol activation, and maybe an extra point of healing from sol can go a long way to prolonging your life if your defense is already high to begin with.

Therefore Nah doesn't care for it as a manakete.

And You have enough nosferatanks already you don't need a crummy Kjelle tank. Donnel!kjelle actually lets her be useful since she can take a hit while skirmishing and than your staffbot can heal your entire party with a fortify or goddess staff.

Vaike!Kjelle is just redundant.

You just don't like skirmisher Donnel!Kjelle because she's got slightly worse stat caps than Gauis!Kjelle, which is stupid. Donnel is Kjelle's second best father, Gauis is her first but he's a waste on her. Donnel!Kjelle is the most optimal pair if nowi marries anyone but Gauis or donnel.
#36MAtt5TERPosted 9/10/2013 5:51:28 PM(edited)
Vantage + healing is just bad.
1. It implies you aren't confident that you can kill enemies before they attack consistently. In which case, why bother equipping Vantage in the first place?
2. If the healing is consistent, then Vantage will never activate. In which case, why bother equipping Vantage in the first place?

You are scared your unit will die. And out of that fear, you create something ugly, illogical, and useless.


The point of equipping Vantage is to go into Vantage mode and stay in Vantage mode, because always attacking first is more broken than any sort of actual defensive skill.
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#37BlueDryBones1Posted 9/10/2013 5:56:49 PM
WeirdRedGlow posted...
In case not everyone was bored with rating pairings, let me if these pairings will be good enough for hard DLC.

Sumia! Lucina
Chrom! Cynthia
Libra! Inigo
Ricken! Owain
Lon'qu! Brady
Henry! Gerome
Stahl! Yarne
Kellam! Severa
Donnel! Kjelle
Gaius! Noire
Vaike! Nah
Gregor! Laurent
Cynthia! Morgan
+magic/-strength


These are my pairings :o except I have Frederick!Gerome and no one yet!Morgan w/ +Spd/-Luk

Kellam/Stahl people would say are better elsewhere but Kellam makes a better Magical Severa and Stahl!Yarne has even more support options.
#38BlueDryBones1Posted 9/10/2013 6:01:22 PM
SazukeEX posted...
Taiphlosion posted...
I don't want to say he's wrong or anything, but it's worth noting that Sazuke's opinions are a bit controversial. Follow them at your own risk.


I can't help it if I've already did my research long ago upon such matters. Unlike quite a few here I know what I'm actually talking about and I'm the one that gave rise to many popular pairings because I backed them with data, fact, and explanation as well as builds and their role.

Those that disagree with me don't and have fooled themselves, like with Donnel!Nah/Kjelle, into thinking Vaike!Nah is actually good when in fact it's very bad and Vaike is far better used for Kjelle - still is and always has been. Quite frankly there are multiple great fathers for Nah that trump Vaike quite easily while Vaike is bar none the best non-Robin father for Kjelle in the entire game.

If you're going for optimization you either optimize all your pairings or none at all. Don't go halfway.


Explain how Vaike!Kjelle is actually the best Kjelle? Having less skills than Donnel!Kjelle and the only stat that matters is the +2 Speed which doesn't make most of a difference most of the time.

Vaike!Nah and Vaike!Kjelle are pretty similar except Nah doesn't get Paladin or Myrimidon but Mage and Manakete instead. Vaike!Nah is Nah's best pairings if you are going for the best end result as you do not waste someone like Gaius or Donnel who are better off with Tharja and Sully respectively due to making the most use of the skills as well as decent mods all around. Gaius!Nah is pretty bad Sol+Vantage is overrated and that is pretty much all she can do effectively as Astra isn't gonna be much use and no DG+ makes her a pretty mediocre support.
#39CarmineSwordPosted 9/10/2013 6:26:46 PM
BlueDryBones1 posted...
SazukeEX posted...
Taiphlosion posted...
I don't want to say he's wrong or anything, but it's worth noting that Sazuke's opinions are a bit controversial. Follow them at your own risk.


I can't help it if I've already did my research long ago upon such matters. Unlike quite a few here I know what I'm actually talking about and I'm the one that gave rise to many popular pairings because I backed them with data, fact, and explanation as well as builds and their role.

Those that disagree with me don't and have fooled themselves, like with Donnel!Nah/Kjelle, into thinking Vaike!Nah is actually good when in fact it's very bad and Vaike is far better used for Kjelle - still is and always has been. Quite frankly there are multiple great fathers for Nah that trump Vaike quite easily while Vaike is bar none the best non-Robin father for Kjelle in the entire game.

If you're going for optimization you either optimize all your pairings or none at all. Don't go halfway.


Explain how Vaike!Kjelle is actually the best Kjelle? Having less skills than Donnel!Kjelle and the only stat that matters is the +2 Speed which doesn't make most of a difference most of the time.

Vaike!Nah and Vaike!Kjelle are pretty similar except Nah doesn't get Paladin or Myrimidon but Mage and Manakete instead. Vaike!Nah is Nah's best pairings if you are going for the best end result as you do not waste someone like Gaius or Donnel who are better off with Tharja and Sully respectively due to making the most use of the skills as well as decent mods all around. Gaius!Nah is pretty bad Sol+Vantage is overrated and that is pretty much all she can do effectively as Astra isn't gonna be much use and no DG+ makes her a pretty mediocre support.


Exactly! If Vaike!Kjelle actually had a significant lead in mods over Donnel!Kjelle, like to the effect of 4-5 more points in multiple stats, I might understand Sazuke's obsession with Vaike!Kjelle, but it doesn't. A 1-2 point difference in stats won't matter in any significant way ever, so getting Galeforce with practically no downsides seems like the much more logical choice.
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#40videospiritPosted 9/10/2013 7:28:27 PM
Well... Vantage+Vengeance+Aversa's Night is notably tougher to kill than just Vengeance+Aversa's Night, since the lower your health is, the more hp you gain back, and so you can make amazing come backs if you say, ate an unfortunate counter before your pair up partner killed off the enemy and are left vulnerable when the next enemy comes up to attack.

But I don't think Vantage is an absolutely essential skill for nosferatanking.