In a way, this dlc has made the MP pay to win.

#21larsonaPosted 5/9/2014 12:05:05 AM
SullyTheStrange posted...
JanwayDaahl posted...
Of course you are more powerful. There is a specific limitation without the dlc that prevents certain builds. This inherently means that dlc players have an advantage, especially considering how strong some of the new perks and weapons are.

There's nothing you can do with the DLC that fundamentally outclasses what you can do before. You just have more options. Yes, some of the new stuff is strong. No, none of it is stronger than anything we've seen before.


Lol dude, I don't mean to side with someone like op but you're kidding yourself when you say the guns aren't stronger.

Hell, even if these guns weren't stronger, the very fact that you're paying for options that affect gameplay in a significant way is enough to fit the bill for pay to win.

Nice try, actually lold.

And yes, I do have the season pass and have tried custom builds.
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#22SullyTheStrangePosted 5/9/2014 12:52:30 AM
larsona posted...
Lol dude, I don't mean to side with someone like op but you're kidding yourself when you say the guns aren't stronger.

Hell, even if these guns weren't stronger, the very fact that you're paying for options that affect gameplay in a significant way is enough to fit the bill for pay to win.

Nice try, actually lold.

And yes, I do have the season pass and have tried custom builds.

Funny that the guy PotD accuses of being Janway's alt shows up in his defense...

Just a coincidence I'm sure.

Either way, give some examples. What's so much stronger in the DLC? I've used the Enforcer and Full auto rifle for hours and I find the revolver to be just as good and the semi-auto to be way better. The Specter isn't that great, you only get enough ammo to kill a single person, it only works at close range, and if they have armor it might not even down them. The double barrel is a purchaseable shorty. Only thing I haven't tried is the launcher and from what I've heard and seen it's not very useful.

And no, having more options is NOT inherently pay-to-win. Pay-to-win is exactly what it sounds like, you pay money and become way more powerful. The options you gain have to be clearly better than standard options and that's in no way the case.
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#23tinfoil21Posted 5/9/2014 5:27:32 AM
tigerex777 posted...
This DLC is like adding more fighters into a fighting game. The new fighters aren't necessarily better or OP just new and fresh so everyone picks them. But once the freshness wears off people just go back to their main fighters. It's just more choices.


^I like this comparison. It's quite accurate and gets what my point was trying to get across.
#24X195Posted 5/9/2014 6:14:04 AM
I was going to post the fighting game comparison, but it seems somebody already did so.
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#25DarkD3stinyPosted 5/9/2014 7:33:23 AM
Having options and being able to put your own stuff together is a big advantage over someone having to select pre made load outs.
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#26TVontheRadioPosted 5/9/2014 10:15:45 AM
Do I really have to repeat what I said about the old guns? They are all still viable weapon choices that can beat the new ones, with the revolver, the SAR, the El Diablo and the Shotgun all being weapons that players can still use with relative ease to dominate those using the new guns.

And in the hands of skilled players, the shorty, the burst and the two sniper rifles can still wreck teams.

For skills, Brawler, EE, FAT, Reviver, CT, SS, and Crafter are all mainstays for strong loadouts.

Get back to me in two or three months when everybody has stopped using these weapons and skills in favor of the new ones because they've been proven to be much less useful.
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#27larsonaPosted 5/9/2014 11:59:04 AM
SullyTheStrange posted...
larsona posted...
Lol dude, I don't mean to side with someone like op but you're kidding yourself when you say the guns aren't stronger.

Hell, even if these guns weren't stronger, the very fact that you're paying for options that affect gameplay in a significant way is enough to fit the bill for pay to win.

Nice try, actually lold.

And yes, I do have the season pass and have tried custom builds.

Funny that the guy PotD accuses of being Janway's alt shows up in his defense...

Just a coincidence I'm sure.

Either way, give some examples. What's so much stronger in the DLC? I've used the Enforcer and Full auto rifle for hours and I find the revolver to be just as good and the semi-auto to be way better. The Specter isn't that great, you only get enough ammo to kill a single person, it only works at close range, and if they have armor it might not even down them. The double barrel is a purchaseable shorty. Only thing I haven't tried is the launcher and from what I've heard and seen it's not very useful.

And no, having more options is NOT inherently pay-to-win. Pay-to-win is exactly what it sounds like, you pay money and become way more powerful. The options you gain have to be clearly better than standard options and that's in no way the case.


By "PoTD" you mean 1-2 people, since I apparently agreed with Janway in some other thread on something. Then again, that doesn't mean much from a board that accuses people of being alts left and right-- especially coming from you.

And it's pretty sad that you have to resort to accusations of me being an alt, just because I agreed with OP on this. You're kidding yourself if you think that the enforcer isn't broken. It is slightly weaker than the revolver, but with better accuracy and firing rates-- not to mention it holds more bullets per clip.

There's no doubt that old weapons are strong too-- but you're taking away from a player's ability to use different (and better) weapons by adding this to a pay to play dlc.

TVontheRadio posted...
Do I really have to repeat what I said about the old guns? They are all still viable weapon choices that can beat the new ones, with the revolver, the SAR, the El Diablo and the Shotgun all being weapons that players can still use with relative ease to dominate those using the new guns.

And in the hands of skilled players, the shorty, the burst and the two sniper rifles can still wreck teams.

For skills, Brawler, EE, FAT, Reviver, CT, SS, and Crafter are all mainstays for strong loadouts.

Get back to me in two or three months when everybody has stopped using these weapons and skills in favor of the new ones because they've been proven to be much less useful.


By sully's logic, I think you're sully's alt.
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#28SullyTheStrangePosted 5/9/2014 2:39:32 PM
larsona posted...
You're kidding yourself if you think that the enforcer isn't broken. It is slightly weaker than the revolver, but with better accuracy and firing rates-- not to mention it holds more bullets per clip

Broken? Have you even used it? It's weaker and faster because those two factors make it BALANCED. It holds more bullets because it needs to land more bullets to be as good. It's the exact middle ground between the revolver and 9mm.

I'm better with the revolver because I prefer slower more precise shots. If you think the enforcer's so much better that it can actually be called broken, all that tells me is that you suck at precise shots.
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#29SullyTheStrangePosted 5/9/2014 3:14:13 PM
DarkD3stiny posted...
Having options and being able to put your own stuff together is a big advantage over someone having to select pre made load outs.

This is a bad argument because the pre-made DLC loadouts are only a courtesy to let you try the new weapons and perks before buying, which they didn't have to do at all. You can still stick to 100% old weapons and perks and not be fundamentally outclassed by DLC owners, because none of the new stuff is inherently better than any of the old stuff. It's just. More. Options.
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There's a lot of places in the world with C4 and yogurt.
#30joeybarton94Posted 5/9/2014 4:24:41 PM
TVontheRadio posted...
Do I really have to repeat what I said about the old guns? They are all still viable weapon choices that can beat the new ones, with the revolver, the SAR, the El Diablo and the Shotgun all being weapons that players can still use with relative ease to dominate those using the new guns.

And in the hands of skilled players, the shorty, the burst and the two sniper rifles can still wreck teams.

For skills, Brawler, EE, FAT, Reviver, CT, SS, and Crafter are all mainstays for strong loadouts.

Get back to me in two or three months when everybody has stopped using these weapons and skills in favor of the new ones because they've been proven to be much less useful.


this
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