Harada needs to be brave and introduce

#91TwistedSensesPosted 11/9/2012 7:32:54 AM
FullAutoCVT posted...
From: Pirate_Duck | #087
ChaozCloud posted...
FullAutoCVT posted...
Harada needs to tell Bandai what's up and get my man Ogre into a DBZ game. He can fly and use energy attacks, plus he's a green alien, so he'll fit right in!

Kazuya would be a better fit. I mean he pretty much looks like Vegeta and he has a transformation to boot.

You guys are kidding, right? He's called Lars.

Guys, quit fighting! Here's all three, with Lee Chaolan too!!!

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/2/22757/463474-goku__piccolo__vegeta__and_trunks.jpg


Lee's not excellent enough in that one.
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#92BlackShinobi13Posted 11/9/2012 8:09:44 AM
sephiroth136 posted...
Just interrupting for a bit:

I guess this is where the difference between hardcore and casual players steps in. Your entire argument was basically "Why should I not play at my best? Why can I not exploit the game in order to win?" and to that I ask "Why are you playing in the first place?" or better "Why do you think the people who are complaining are playing this for?" While, there are some who play to win and I agree in that case they should prob just get better, but what about who just play for fun? Instead of arguing about what game mechanics to remove/add why not just add a room for casual players? And I don't mean Player match, because some people seem to want to play seriously there too?
Or perhaps more options when choosing the rank of the opponent? (Or less?) Something that enables players to play against people at their level, so the hardcore and the casual are not mixed too much (Cus that seems to cause arguments).


Heres the thing, casual players try to make playing to win out to be this completely seperate thing from playing for fun, but the truth is anyone who says they are playing for fun who complains when they lose IS PLAYING TO WIN; they may not actually be winning but that is their goal.

If you didn't care about winning you wouldn't complain when you lose and a lot of casual players seem to glance right over this fact and think attack are coming at them when they are not. Competitive players have no problem with people who are just playing for fun, but they do get annoyed with people hide behind the excuse of playing for fun to explain why the don't practice or study or know the basics of the game, and then those same people complain when they lose.

Complainers aren't just playing for fun, they are playing to win also, they just aren't good at actually winning.
#93Tsunade11(Topic Creator)Posted 11/9/2012 8:38:06 AM
sephiroth136 posted...
Just interrupting for a bit:

"Combo breaking mechanics help weaker players by giving them one more chance not to get perfected, but overall they help the better player much more than the weaker player. Combo breaking mechanics add a whole new layer of risk reward and resource management to a fighting game, to use them to their fullest you have to study when it is best to use and not use it, now who do you think is going to actually do that? The guy who put in the time to learn his character's juggles or the person who didn't and spent that time complaining about getting juggled. People who want to put the time in are going to put the time in and people who don't want to now still aren't. What you'll end up with is that advanced player will develop a tekken version of burst baiting to use on unskilled players, while gaining a combo breaker that unskilled players don't know how to bait.
I'll say this again for anyone who didn't get it the first time; I've played games with combo breaking mechanics competitively before people and asking for a juggle escape in

).


Thank you, sephiroth You point about juggle breakers is exactly what I'm saying, at the end of the day it will be to the advantage of the better player and that is exactly what my argurment is,

As a Nina player it is imperative for me to use launchers and juggles as a compliment to my aggressive poking game but Iíve come to a realization that I want more, every time I launch somebody (which is quite frequent), I always do the same juggles because Iím guaranteed the most damage using them.

I was having a ball in the first month but Iíve reached a stage where itís become tedious , I actually feel sorry for my opponents and let them out of a juggle to prolong a match and see if he can come up with anything else. I also started using riskier moves and have realized that the game does not reward risk as much as caution.

I believe that to further improve the spectacular Tekken Combat system, the team must look into progressing air combat mechanics, this includes improving defenses whilst being juggled in the air, they donít have to be a one button escapes, it could be a punch or kick button perfectly timed combination allowing for an air reversal. Even if you look at it from a realistic perspective one doesnít just float in the air being pummeled helplessly from one end to the screen to the other.

If it gives you comfort you can refer to me as casuals and noobs, but the truth of the matter, this is what Tekken is becoming since T5( it was fun then, it was also better in DR, it got tedious in 6) but now TTT2 has somewhat covered the problem up with the tag system and the new characters, but the issue is still there? Harada and co have hit a wall, where do they go from here?


Combat is all about frame counting and launching and unleashing a damaging crippling juggle which has me LP somebody in the air to extend the juggle and increase the damage. I donít care what you say but there is nothing satisfying in seeing that on screen , its self gratification.

I believe evolving combat further by introducing air defensive options will encourage diversity in play and it will allow the better players to work harder at winning, it will also stop players from abusing the system and itíll be an adequate solution for bad lag matches where blocking can be an issue.
#94sephiroth136Posted 11/9/2012 9:12:49 AM
BlackShinobi13 posted...
Heres the thing, casual players try to make playing to win out to be this completely seperate thing from playing for fun, but the truth is anyone who says they are playing for fun who complains when they lose IS PLAYING TO WIN; they may not actually be winning but that is their goal.

If you didn't care about winning you wouldn't complain when you lose and a lot of casual players seem to glance right over this fact and think attack are coming at them when they are not. Competitive players have no problem with people who are just playing for fun, but they do get annoyed with people hide behind the excuse of playing for fun to explain why the don't practice or study or know the basics of the game, and then those same people complain when they lose.

Complainers aren't just playing for fun, they are playing to win also, they just aren't good at actually winning.


Now you're just generalising, and ignoring that perhaps Casual's complain because they don't like losing the majority of the time. It has nothing to do with playing to win or not, if they're losing all the time, chances are, they're not having fun, especially if they're getting juggled like they're at the circus. Which is why I suggested the things I did, so they can play against people on their level and it doesn't feel so 'cheap'.

Tsunade11 posted...
sephiroth136 posted...
Just interrupting for a bit:

"Combo breaking mechanics help weaker players by giving them one more chance not to get perfected, but overall they help the better player much more than the weaker player. Combo breaking mechanics add a whole new layer of risk reward and resource management to a fighting game, to use them to their fullest you have to study when it is best to use and not use it, now who do you think is going to actually do that? The guy who put in the time to learn his character's juggles or the person who didn't and spent that time complaining about getting juggled. People who want to put the time in are going to put the time in and people who don't want to now still aren't. What you'll end up with is that advanced player will develop a tekken version of burst baiting to use on unskilled players, while gaining a combo breaker that unskilled players don't know how to bait.
I'll say this again for anyone who didn't get it the first time; I've played games with combo breaking mechanics competitively before people and asking for a juggle escape in).


Thank you, sephiroth You point about juggle breakers is exactly what I'm saying, at the end of the day it will be to the advantage of the better player and that is exactly what my argurment is,


Umm, that wasn't actually my point (I didn't notice the 'quote' till a few mins ago, sorry) it was BlackShinobi13's post from 5 pages back....
#95BlackShinobi13Posted 11/9/2012 9:31:18 AM
Tsunade11 posted...
Thank you, sephiroth You point about juggle breakers is exactly what I'm saying, at the end of the day it will be to the advantage of the better player and that is exactly what my argurment is,

As a Nina player it is imperative for me to use launchers and juggles as a compliment to my aggressive poking game but Iíve come to a realization that I want more, every time I launch somebody (which is quite frequent), I always do the same juggles because Iím guaranteed the most damage using them.

I was having a ball in the first month but Iíve reached a stage where itís become tedious , I actually feel sorry for my opponents and let them out of a juggle to prolong a match and see if he can come up with anything else. I also started using riskier moves and have realized that the game does not reward risk as much as caution.

I believe that to further improve the spectacular Tekken Combat system, the team must look into progressing air combat mechanics, this includes improving defenses whilst being juggled in the air, they donít have to be a one button escapes, it could be a punch or kick button perfectly timed combination allowing for an air reversal. Even if you look at it from a realistic perspective one doesnít just float in the air being pummeled helplessly from one end to the screen to the other.

If it gives you comfort you can refer to me as casuals and noobs, but the truth of the matter, this is what Tekken is becoming since T5( it was fun then, it was also better in DR, it got tedious in 6) but now TTT2 has somewhat covered the problem up with the tag system and the new characters, but the issue is still there? Harada and co have hit a wall, where do they go from here?


Combat is all about frame counting and launching and unleashing a damaging crippling juggle which has me LP somebody in the air to extend the juggle and increase the damage. I donít care what you say but there is nothing satisfying in seeing that on screen , its self gratification.

I believe evolving combat further by introducing air defensive options will encourage diversity in play and it will allow the better players to work harder at winning, it will also stop players from abusing the system and itíll be an adequate solution for bad lag matches where blocking can be an issue.


1) You just quoted me not Sephiroth

2) If your opponents can't stop juggles it doesn't mean the game needed a juggle breaker it means you need to find better competition, why are you playing people you feel sorry for? go and get some actual competition and stop playing people who don't know how to block.

3) Watch this and tell me that tekken is all juggles.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p0VeGaLbujQ

4) Nothing will stop players from abusing the system

5) You should not factor lag into your core game.

6) Tekken was like this before tekken 5 stop trying to say that, it's not true.
#96Tsunade11(Topic Creator)Posted 11/9/2012 9:38:14 AM
Well whatever our differences lets hope that Harada can keep introducing new game mechanics with new iterations so that the Tekken combat system will further evolve in its greatness.

I guarantee you guys that change is inevitable and I'm sure Harada and co will experiment with alot of new properties in the Tekken vs Street fighter game.
#97BlackShinobi13Posted 11/9/2012 9:49:18 AM
sephiroth136 posted...
Now you're just generalising, and ignoring that perhaps Casual's complain because they don't like losing the majority of the time. It has nothing to do with playing to win or not, if they're losing all the time, chances are, they're not having fun, especially if they're getting juggled like they're at the circus. Which is why I suggested the things I did, so they can play against people on their level and it doesn't feel so 'cheap'.

If you don't like losing and you're actively trying not to lose, THEN YOU'RE PLAYING TO WIN. I don't even know how to make that any clearer. If you are not playing to win, then you don't care when you lose.

Here is a lesson I taught my GF when I taught her how to play Soul Calibur and Tekken
When you go to the arcade dudes will try to throw matches against you initially because they are trying to be nice or trying to talk to you. But after a few matches they will stop "taking it easy on you" and start playing more seriously and at that point they will realize that they can't actually beat you. You will be able to tell when someone goes from not trying to win against you to actually trying because the first time your beat them when they are trying excuses will start popping up and they will show visible signs of frustration or anger that weren't there when their goal wasn't actually winning.

Anger, frustration and complaining are much more clear signs of playing to win than any in game tactic.
#98XWolfOPosted 11/9/2012 9:52:41 AM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#99XWolfOPosted 11/9/2012 9:53:32 AM
Yes. I agree. And they should focus more on the aerial battle while they're at it. an how about some counter move that counter unblockables with twice the damage right back at them with just a press of a button. Oh, and how about a reversal for Jun/Asuka reversals and all the rest. They should totally re-haul everything and make Tekken super awesome. That way people will buy it like cupcakes. Cupcakes I say!
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#100ThePatrickPosted 11/9/2012 10:01:55 AM
Escape juggles = welcome to Soul Calibur

Tekken, Street Fighter, King of Fighters, Dead Or Alive, and even the "Holy Grail," Virtua Fighter, all have inescapable combos. Some are quite lengthy and/or devastating in all games.

I understand the whole "dude I hate getting juggled!!" stuff but I think it's good to be able to punish people. If you took away juggles and made it so basically the only thing to do was get in a nice one-or-two hit thing (maybe certain crumples), wouldn't the game get a little dull?

Besides, most juggle-addicts don't know the basics of the game or the reaches and such of their moves (or even all the moves of the characters), so if you work on fundamentals, you should still be able to beat a lot of 'em.
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