Skeleton Suit > Titan Armor ?

#1Lebowski1Posted 2/18/2013 8:48:53 AM
I know your hp takes a hit, but the +10 defense and increased movement of skeleton suit do it for me. Skeleton suit obviously is flat-out better than Carapace but how do you value it vs titan? Also, is it possible to develop ghost without first doing titan?
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XCOM Ironman Impossible attempt currently in progress at my Youtube channel, check it out at www.youtube.com/Valchronification
#2SeishoumaruPosted 2/18/2013 9:45:46 AM(edited)
I don't think it holds up against Titan. Titan suit makes you capable of surviving a critical hit from anything up to a Plasma rifle by default on any difficulty. Veterans will survive anything, as long as it's one hit, so the +10 def doesn't hold up against it IMHO.

Sadly. Titan armor must be researched before Archangel and Ghost armor are made available. Capture a Muton Berserker to reduce the research time. Otherwise, it's not a terrible armor, especially for rookies or supports (when you don't have a Ghost armor for everyone).
#3Lebowski1(Topic Creator)Posted 2/18/2013 10:32:49 AM(edited)
It's not just the +10 defesnse, you also get a significant movement boost. So in addition to better defense, you get better access to hunkering down in full cover. In exchange for, what, 7hp? I'm going to stick with Skele and let you know how I get on. Being one-shotted mught be a drag, but if you're not hit in the first place, or hunkered down (no crit)...
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XCOM Ironman Impossible attempt currently in progress at my Youtube channel, check it out at www.youtube.com/Valchronification
#4EdalborezPosted 2/18/2013 11:13:54 AM(edited)
Skeleton doesn't hold up. 10 defense vs 7 HP is not a good trade. Ghost is more favorable (20 def, and the amazing Stealth vs 4 HP).

To research Ghost you need to research Titan Armor and Hyperwave Communication (after alien base).
#5ChronoReversePosted 2/18/2013 12:10:30 PM
Different function really. When I only have Skel, Cara and Titan, I give my Snipers and Supports the Skeleton Suit while the Assaults and Heavies get Titan.


Now if you're asking whether Skeleton is better than Carapace, then I think it's unequivocally the Skeleton Suit.
#6SeishoumaruPosted 2/18/2013 12:47:18 PM
Lebowski1 posted...
It's not just the +10 defesnse, you also get a significant movement boost. So in addition to better defense, you get better access to hunkering down in full cover. In exchange for, what, 7hp? I'm going to stick with Skele and let you know how I get on. Being one-shotted mught be a drag, but if you're not hit in the first place, or hunkered down (no crit)...


I would say it depends on the context. If you're really choosing between Titan and Skeleton suit, you're one research away from Ghost armor unless you skipped the alien base. In any case, you should probably use neither and go for Ghost armor.

If we only talk about bonuses, let me start with that +10 def is NOT a good trade for 7 hp. Since you're playing impossible, the bonus itself is a 100% health increase for a colonel. The +3 movement is more debatable. While you can hunker down and become nearly unkillable, the fact that if you choose to shoot and MISS, you're wide open for retaliation unless you can salvage the situation by killing the target or suppress it (not always an option).

Also let me point out that Carapace armor is required to unlock Skeleton suit and Titan armor, so you already have a decent base armor. Titan armor is required for Ghost armor, while Skeleton suits gives you nothing. Since your supports already have +3 movement, they benefit more from Titan armor than Skeleton suits until they get Ghost armors. This is ultimately my choice, especially for ironman games.
#7Lebowski1(Topic Creator)Posted 2/18/2013 2:37:42 PM(edited)
It's not a case of the +10 defense OR the +3 movement being worth the +7hp, it's both (plus the grapple hook but that's not such a big deal). I think it's close, and I personally would go for skeleton suit. The idea with hunker down is that you do it until you are in an optimal position to attack via flanking and so forth.

Yes supports get +3 for sprinter, but turning that into +6 is really great. Ok, now you mention the tech tree of skeleton not giving you anything, that's a good point, but I don't think I would be able to resist the extra dynamic movement options skele suit brings you.

Ghost armor is of course amazing but it has put me off Close Combat (assault) for life! Nothing like a close combat attack to blow your ghost cover.

edit: hm, thinking about the big picture now I think skeleton suit makes even MORE sense! Better to stick with it, rush through to Ghost Armor and skip Titan entirely (saving a ton of money for ghost once you unlock it)

edit2: maybe 1 titan suit for a particular class. Not sure about giving it to heavy as they can gain great spots with skeleton suit's movement and get hunkering down, and then hunker down after their first bullet swarm attack if they need to. Assault might benefit from Titan most (run n gun meaning their attacking range is not so limited anyway). Not sure.
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XCOM Ironman Impossible attempt currently in progress at my Youtube channel, check it out at www.youtube.com/Valchronification
#8Lebowski1(Topic Creator)Posted 2/18/2013 2:43:46 PM
Seish, actually my Ironman Impossible campaign ended in failure (haven't updated my sig for that yet...) Horrendous bug in battle 4, blahblah. New attempt starting/uploading as soon as I've finished my current Classic Marathon campaign.

I'm going to stick to my guns and go with the speed > resilience approach. Risky I know but what can I say, I'm a VC player so gotta go with that Alicia Rush style! (well... that analogy is a bit of a stretch but w/e)
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XCOM Ironman Impossible attempt currently in progress at my Youtube channel, check it out at www.youtube.com/Valchronification
#9SeishoumaruPosted 2/18/2013 2:53:06 PM(edited)
Well it makes sense since one Titan armor costs as much as Skeleton suits for the whole team. You just need to take a research detour to get the suits. If you think it's worth it then it's a superb upgrade over Carapace armor.

Personally, whenever I unlock Titan armor I'm only one Hyperwave relay research away from Ghost armor. So at this point I don't have a reason to research Skeleton suits at all, just go straight for Ghost. Since Titan armors are cheap in terms of elerium, any spare resources goes to buy 1-2 Titan armor for my supports.

So from my perspectives. If you intend to research Skeleton suits early, then by all means don't stop for Titan armor. You just need to take those extra days to research it. If you have unlocked Titan armor research but haven't researched Skeleton suit yet, I'd skip the suits and head straight for Ghost armor.

Edit: Didn't see your post. Sorry to hear about your I/I campaign. I'd say experimenting is the way to go. Perhaps you'll learn some new stuff for your next I/I campaign? :)
#10Lebowski1(Topic Creator)Posted 2/18/2013 2:52:14 PM
Agreed. I just don't like sticking with carapace all the way until titan, but then the health drop from titan down to skeleton suit is a bit worrying too. I will try the skeleton suit route and upload it all so we shall see.
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XCOM Ironman Impossible attempt currently in progress at my Youtube channel, check it out at www.youtube.com/Valchronification