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Why do so many people here hate smogon?

#61beebarbPosted 10/21/2012 4:46:19 PM
NapalmAffiity posted...
beebarb posted...
pies12 posted...
From: beebarb | #047
I dislike (but not entirely hate) Smogon because they are mutilating an already mostly balanced game. They fail to realise the amount of testing that is done to make sure the moves are balanced.

One part of Game Freak's Pokemon development team is dedicated to battle testing. Sure, some moves get overlooked, they're only human. But still, trying to "bring balance" to an already reasonably balanced game only breeds trouble.



Flareon.


What?


Flareon is proof that gamefreak doesn't care about competitive pokemon as much as one may think, thus Smogon tries to balance it.

Flareon has an awesome attack stat but the only physical stab move it gets is fire fang. Fire fang is a move with only 65 base power.


Obviously you didn't read my statement fully, I stated quite clearly that the testing team make mistakes and overlook certain things, their ultimate goal is proper balance, but there are going to be times when one or more Pokemon and/or moves are unbalanced.

Wait and see what generation VI brings, perhaps Flareon's situation will improve.
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#62BlackScythe0Posted 10/21/2012 4:47:11 PM
beebarb posted...
Alty1 posted...
Oh, one final thing. I'm not talking about the people who disagree with Smogon's rule decisions. Those people are fine, I'm only talking about the people like beebarb who complain about people playing by those rulesets.


*ugh, I hate how it's impossible to properly show emotion on the net*

I assume you are referring to my last statement:
I avoid online battles because of the Smogon Zombies, players who blindly follow their 'rules' and disconnect on anyone who prefers the official VGC rules.


I wasn't complaining about the people, I was making a solid statement about the fact that there are a small group within the smogon followers who blindly follow the rules, making it impossible for an ordinary player to enjoy themselves on random match-up.

If you had read what I wrote in full rather than skimming it half distracted, and paying too much attention to that last statement, you would have realised this without me needing to explain.


Ordinary? Why is it I can only think of terrible things when you say that?
#63Alty1Posted 10/21/2012 4:48:50 PM
From: beebarb | #058
Alty1 posted...
Oh, one final thing. I'm not talking about the people who disagree with Smogon's rule decisions. Those people are fine, I'm only talking about the people like beebarb who complain about people playing by those rulesets.


*ugh, I hate how it's impossible to properly show emotion on the net*

I assume you are referring to my last statement:
I avoid online battles because of the Smogon Zombies, players who blindly follow their 'rules' and disconnect on anyone who prefers the official VGC rules.


I wasn't complaining about the people, I was making a solid statement about the fact that there are a small group within the smogon followers who blindly follow the rules, making it impossible for an ordinary player to enjoy themselves on random match-up.

If you had read what I wrote in full rather than skimming it half distracted, and paying too much attention to that last statement, you would have realised this without me needing to explain.


Actually, I was referring to everything else. That last bit is the most reasonable thing you said. Your hyperbolic take on Smogon's effect (mutilating the metagame, referring to "proper" competitive players, and so on). Your entire spiel there is about how other people are choosing to play their game, and how it does not comport with how you play the game. That's classic scrub language.

The last bit, complaining about how it damages you is reasonable. But then again, those people are scrubs too.
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“Life is a journey. Time is a river. The door is ajar” - Jim Butcher
#64beebarbPosted 10/21/2012 4:50:44 PM
Alty1 posted...
From: beebarb | #058
Alty1 posted...
Oh, one final thing. I'm not talking about the people who disagree with Smogon's rule decisions. Those people are fine, I'm only talking about the people like beebarb who complain about people playing by those rulesets.


*ugh, I hate how it's impossible to properly show emotion on the net*

I assume you are referring to my last statement:
I avoid online battles because of the Smogon Zombies, players who blindly follow their 'rules' and disconnect on anyone who prefers the official VGC rules.


I wasn't complaining about the people, I was making a solid statement about the fact that there are a small group within the smogon followers who blindly follow the rules, making it impossible for an ordinary player to enjoy themselves on random match-up.

If you had read what I wrote in full rather than skimming it half distracted, and paying too much attention to that last statement, you would have realised this without me needing to explain.


Actually, I was referring to everything else. That last bit is the most reasonable thing you said. Your hyperbolic take on Smogon's effect (mutilating the metagame, referring to "proper" competitive players, and so on). Your entire spiel there is about how other people are choosing to play their game, and how it does not comport with how you play the game. That's classic scrub language.

The last bit, complaining about how it damages you is reasonable. But then again, those people are scrubs too.


Obviously you didn't read it properly then.
---
We shall rise again to start anew.
White FC: 0862-2660-4156 / 3DS FC: 2492-4470-1418 / White 2 FC: 4556-7836-2644
#65Alty1Posted 10/21/2012 4:53:46 PM
From: beebarb | #064
Alty1 posted...
From: beebarb | #058
Alty1 posted...
Oh, one final thing. I'm not talking about the people who disagree with Smogon's rule decisions. Those people are fine, I'm only talking about the people like beebarb who complain about people playing by those rulesets.


*ugh, I hate how it's impossible to properly show emotion on the net*

I assume you are referring to my last statement:
I avoid online battles because of the Smogon Zombies, players who blindly follow their 'rules' and disconnect on anyone who prefers the official VGC rules.


I wasn't complaining about the people, I was making a solid statement about the fact that there are a small group within the smogon followers who blindly follow the rules, making it impossible for an ordinary player to enjoy themselves on random match-up.

If you had read what I wrote in full rather than skimming it half distracted, and paying too much attention to that last statement, you would have realised this without me needing to explain.


Actually, I was referring to everything else. That last bit is the most reasonable thing you said. Your hyperbolic take on Smogon's effect (mutilating the metagame, referring to "proper" competitive players, and so on). Your entire spiel there is about how other people are choosing to play their game, and how it does not comport with how you play the game. That's classic scrub language.

The last bit, complaining about how it damages you is reasonable. But then again, those people are scrubs too.


Obviously you didn't read it properly then.


Perhaps you could explain. It might move things along at a quicker pace.
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“Life is a journey. Time is a river. The door is ajar” - Jim Butcher
#66TehTrumpCardPosted 10/21/2012 4:53:57 PM
People hate Smogon because they still think the Tar-Chomp-Drill combo is fair as is not having a Sleep or Evasion Clause.

They probably don't believe using Quick Claw is a hax item either.
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#67KeeperOfShadowsPosted 10/21/2012 4:58:08 PM
Alty1 posted...
The people who complain about smogon are odd ducks in my opinion.

They don't have to play by smogon rules, but they're making sure they get their two cents out there about how other people choose to play a game. I think someone said it best when they said they are scrubs.

'Course, Smogon faithful can be scrubs too, so it's a giant cycle of scrub on scrub action.


So nobody plays on PokemonShowdown anymore?

I may not hate Smogon, but steadily removing luck in any form is ridiculous. People who lose to luck-based strategies whine that no skill was involved, that they had no control over their situation, and if they did, they'd have had an easier time.

So should I whine if an opponent I could ohko beats me using something like paralysis or sleep? I mean, I had no control over what moves my opponent used, or whether I'd be able to fight due to unlucky status effects. Why not ban status effects and stat drops next?

Then a Smogon defender would say its not the same thing because there's ways to counter that or because its not "overly-centralizing"(smogon's favorite excuse).

But please tell me, how is being paralyzed, frozen, or asleep have you potentialy losing less turns than boosted evasion? With really bad luck a pokemon under these conditions could faint before it gets another turn.

Why is this allowed? Because its part of the game, and its users strategically utilize things like this in hope to get an advantage. How in the name of Smogon is evasion any different? If I use Sand Viel/Snow Cloak on a sand/hail team, of course I'm hoping you won't hit me! Why else use it?

Sorry if that was a TL:DR. I didn't mean to rant that much...
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Maybe I AM a flip-flopper. I'm also a schizophrenic. What's your excuse?
#68beebarbPosted 10/21/2012 5:09:30 PM
Alty1 posted...
Perhaps you could explain. It might move things along at a quicker pace.


Very well.

People can play the game however they wish, but when a game is inherently balanced (however imperfect that balance may be), and some community groups try to bring balance to what they perceive as unbalanced, it only breeds trouble.

What stems from these different methods of play is unfortunately, subgroups and a whole mess of arguments on forums and message boards. As well as trouble when those subgroups interact.

At the moment it seems there are these subgroups in the Pokemon community:

Casual Players
VGC Competitive Players
Smogon-VGC Mix Competitive Players
Smogon Competitive Players
Smogon Zombie Competitive Players
Rage Quitters

The only troublesome subgroups seem to be the Smogon Zombie and Rage Quitter subgroups.

Hopefully this is clearer. If you have any questions or wish me to clarify anything let me know.
---
We shall rise again to start anew.
White FC: 0862-2660-4156 / 3DS FC: 2492-4470-1418 / White 2 FC: 4556-7836-2644
#69ColtCababaPosted 10/21/2012 5:11:36 PM
Why they hate Smogon?

Because:

They see me trollin', they hatin'
Patrollin', then tryin' to catch me ridin' dirty.
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Some people I just hate. I should have the right to hate you, offend you, and defend myself. I can't because of these "regulations" that make me sick.
#70ThatGuyZPosted 10/21/2012 5:15:29 PM
beebarb posted...
Alty1 posted...
Perhaps you could explain. It might move things along at a quicker pace.


Very well.

People can play the game however they wish, but when a game is inherently balanced (however imperfect that balance may be), and some community groups try to bring balance to what they perceive as unbalanced, it only breeds trouble.

What stems from these different methods of play is unfortunately, subgroups and a whole mess of arguments on forums and message boards. As well as trouble when those subgroups interact.

At the moment it seems there are these subgroups in the Pokemon community:

Casual Players
VGC Competitive Players
Smogon-VGC Mix Competitive Players
Smogon Competitive Players
Smogon Zombie Competitive Players
Rage Quitters

The only troublesome subgroups seem to be the Smogon Zombie and Rage Quitter subgroups.

Hopefully this is clearer. If you have any questions or wish me to clarify anything let me know.


You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. Hell, last year at my school, there was this one guy who followed Smogon like a complete tool, going so far as to question why I had Sturdy instead of Magnet Pull for my Magnezone.

Long story short, I told him it's my mon and I'll use what I want, only to be followed with criticism of how me just wanting to use a Magnezone was foolish and that I needed something to counter JUST Skarmory and Empoleon...hell, I'm not a competitive player, but even I know what balance exists in Pokemon. More or less, the category of the Zombie Competitive Player typically gives Smogon a bad name...
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