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The RNG in this game is soo rigged

#41KaphoticsPosted 11/5/2012 11:42:21 PM
jayman7 posted...
Uh... first of all, most allegations of RNG bias revolve around post-game areas like the Battle Tower and Subway and what have you. Secondly, regardless of any RNG bias that may or may not exist, feeding it a starting seed and input file would mean all of nothing; the same seed and input will produce the same result in all games unless it's getting its numbers from an external source. So your video doesn't really prove anything.


The game uses the same Battle RNG for every battle. There were no changes BW->B2W2 in order to preserve the link functionality, hence why Sky Drop is still broken.

The example video is the E4 second time through.

Here's an example video in the Battle Institute, recorded as I played through it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psOVh-xdJrg

Still don't believe me? Super Singles Subway:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2mHf670EF8

The classic first reveal of BRNG in regular singles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z3Nodv8BtU

Battle videos are just a starting seed, input file, and pkms. The game re-creates the battle. Check Pokecheck's VS. Player with any battle video, you'll have it tell you the outcome and turn-by-turn progress like actual damage and statusing.

Again, there is absolutely NO BIAS, NO RIGGING. The seed is determined at the start of the battle; depending on how many frames you and your opponent use per turn determines who gets what "hax". There's little to no information about the Battle RNG out there since it's pretty easy to abuse, especially on Player vs Player battles.

I really don't need to prove anything, you can choose to believe me or not. I'm still right ;)
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AIM: Kaphotics
2.ly/5thGenRNGResearchThread
#42lunarswordPosted 11/5/2012 11:43:06 PM
TherianReturns posted...
Kaphotics posted...
lunarsword posted...
Some games are programmed to be more generous to the player than others, and BW2 are obviously geared to the AI's side. The first 15 minutes of the game could have told you that much if you played BW only a week before.


The game is not rigged at all, you're simply just a poor battler.


oh snap


hmm? If by "poor battler" you mean I simply play using a team that I enjoy rather than fret over the fine aspects behind boositing their stats, then I suppose I am. Not everyone plays Pokemon with the intent to break it down into pure numbers/ratios/tiers (despite all my previous examples, I don't do this myself, those are just the hard facts of a game). I play it simply to enjoy seeing the natural progression and obtainment of my chosen team, as one would expect to if they truly existed (or so I would imagine). An example that anyone on here should know from me by now is my perverse adoration of Lopunny.

I use a Lopunny in every game for the simple fact that she (I only use a female obvsly) is the most sexually attractive one (go ahead and abuse that statement as much as you wish). Whether she has high end movesets, perfect IVs or great base stats is irrelevant to the way I play. I also use Snivy as the starter every time purely because I like its visual design more than any other Gen V native grass type, pure battle potential be damned. For the record I also never play online simply for the fact that there is no reason for me to. What is there to gain for someone that plays Pokemon in a way that treats the battles as a rather small part of the overall experience?
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"All your sweetrolls are belong to me."
Video play throughs at - http://www.youtube.com/user/DreadArkive
#43jayman7Posted 11/5/2012 11:49:41 PM(edited)
Kaphotics posted...
jayman7 posted...
Uh... first of all, most allegations of RNG bias revolve around post-game areas like the Battle Tower and Subway and what have you. Secondly, regardless of any RNG bias that may or may not exist, feeding it a starting seed and input file would mean all of nothing; the same seed and input will produce the same result in all games unless it's getting its numbers from an external source. So your video doesn't really prove anything.


The game uses the same Battle RNG for every battle. There were no changes BW->B2W2 in order to preserve the link functionality, hence why Sky Drop is still broken.

The example video is the E4 second time through.

Here's an example video in the Battle Institute, recorded as I played through it.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psOVh-xdJrg

Still don't believe me? Super Singles Subway:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D2mHf670EF8

The classic first reveal of BRNG in regular singles:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4z3Nodv8BtU

Battle videos are just a starting seed, input file, and pkms. The game re-creates the battle. Check Pokecheck's VS. Player with any battle video, you'll have it tell you the outcome and turn-by-turn progress like actual damage and statusing.

Again, there is absolutely NO BIAS, NO RIGGING. The seed is determined at the start of the battle; depending on how many frames you and your opponent use per turn determines who gets what "hax". There's little to no information about the Battle RNG out there since it's pretty easy to abuse, especially on Player vs Player battles.

I really don't need to prove anything, you can choose to believe me or not. I'm still right ;)


You actually did nothing to counteract the statement that same seed + same input = guaranteed same result every time. Whether the RNG is biased has nothing to do with that. Also, a biased RNG is not the same as an RNG that never favors the human. All you did was answer my earlier question - "Has anyone actually figured out the battle RNG?" - in the negative, which means you've simply proved that you don't know the answer.

I'm not saying the RNG is biased.

I am saying "has anyone actually figured out whether it's biased or not"?
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"It's not ten years old! Therefore, it sucks!" - Nostalgia whores everywhere
#44KaphoticsPosted 11/5/2012 11:54:58 PM
jayman7 posted...
I am saying "has anyone actually figured out whether it's biased or not"?


k fine, to answer that question: Yes, Bond697, xfr (of Pokecheck), V4 of Smogon and I all know how the battle RNG works and assure you that it is not biased.

We're the ones who figured out the actual damage formula (not an approximation as was done for gen IV); you can read that here:
www.smogon.com/bw/articles/bw_complete_damage_formula

Since I have abused the battle RNG a lot... I surely would know if it was biased or not, no?

same seed + same input = guaranteed same result every time.

This is true, that's how battle videos are. Same conditions and actions yields the same result.
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AIM: Kaphotics
2.ly/5thGenRNGResearchThread
#45ChicagoTed_Posted 11/6/2012 12:04:11 AM(edited)
lunarsword posted...
*snipped counter-argument against poor battler comment, and stuff about Lopunny*

You're absolutely right here. You're welcome to play Pokemon however you like, and I respect the fact that you play for your own reasons, and for fun. Heck, judging by your well-spoken responses, you're even a pretty steadfast person when faced with opposition against your argument, and that's respectable as well.

But even you have to admit, looking back at it in retrospect, that you misinterpreted the point of the topic in your first post. There's no shame in it, and you shouldn't be judged for it, but it did happen.

On Topic: The RNG governing results of used moves in the battle system appears to favor the opponent at times, and the player at other times. It is likely not true random. Conformation bias suggests that we remember the times it affected us negatively more often than otherwise. Sometimes the game just likes to chew you up and spit you out. Try playing Monster Hunter, then come back and tell me if you still feel the same way about the RNG in Pokemon.
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#46jayman7Posted 11/6/2012 12:01:46 AM
For now, I'll take your word that those people worked out the RNG, though I haven't seen the evidence. But to be honest, consider two six-sided dice. One of them is fair. The other is weighted to come up "6" 50% of the time, 1 2% of the time, and the other four 12% of the time each. Showing me a TAS video of you playing is about as accurate as taking one of the dice, rolling it until you get a 1, and saying "this isn't a biased die!" It doesn't actually prove anything - both dice can roll 1.
---
Creator of Jay's Journey (see quote!)
"It's not ten years old! Therefore, it sucks!" - Nostalgia whores everywhere
#47KaphoticsPosted 11/6/2012 12:09:06 AM
jayman7 posted...
For now, I'll take your word that those people worked out the RNG, though I haven't seen the evidence. But to be honest, consider two six-sided dice. One of them is fair. The other is weighted to come up "6" 50% of the time, 1 2% of the time, and the other four 12% of the time each. Showing me a TAS video of you playing is about as accurate as taking one of the dice, rolling it until you get a 1, and saying "this isn't a biased die!" It doesn't actually prove anything - both dice can roll 1.


I have provided examples of how the game uses the PRNG values for battles over at Smogon.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3693066#post3693066

It simply calls for a random number, and derives a random value from it. Then it does a compare with the hard-coded chances like accuracy, and then the game carries out the result. It's straightforward and no funny business happens.

The reason I'm not providing concrete examples of how it operates is because it would give away how to cheat online. That is not the intention.
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AIM: Kaphotics
2.ly/5thGenRNGResearchThread
#48glitchunter75Posted 11/6/2012 12:10:59 AM
Colress and his Para-haxing in PWT gave me a real hard time. On top of stupidly inaccurate Hi Jump Kicks from my Scraggy.

And the Hi Jump Misses continued during the battles on Team Plasma's ship docked at PWT. Not a single one hit its mark. Not one in all 4 of those Grunt battles.
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The World Ends With You 2 in 2012? I sure hope so!
Official Shiny Victini of the Pokemon B/W 2 and PMD: MMM boards.
#49Derald_SnyderPosted 11/6/2012 12:24:36 AM
OBJECTION!

The RNG is indeed rigged on Battle Subway, but I've played PWT several times and the RNG seems to play a bit more fair.

Examples:
Garchomp hurting itself in confusion got me past Clair one time.
Burgh's Durant missed with Guillotine and died swiftly afterwards.
Sawk hit with Reversal on Lt. Surge's Trollface Electrode(Focus Sash, Double Team, Signal Beam(for confusion)) on the same turn it got confused, wiping out its last hit point and forcing Surge to surrender.
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There is no such thing as "normal". It is as much of an abstraction as the concept of "perfection".
#50jayman7Posted 11/6/2012 12:30:22 AM(edited)
Kaphotics posted...
jayman7 posted...
For now, I'll take your word that those people worked out the RNG, though I haven't seen the evidence. But to be honest, consider two six-sided dice. One of them is fair. The other is weighted to come up "6" 50% of the time, 1 2% of the time, and the other four 12% of the time each. Showing me a TAS video of you playing is about as accurate as taking one of the dice, rolling it until you get a 1, and saying "this isn't a biased die!" It doesn't actually prove anything - both dice can roll 1.


I have provided examples of how the game uses the PRNG values for battles over at Smogon.
http://www.smogon.com/forums/showthread.php?p=3693066#post3693066

It simply calls for a random number, and derives a random value from it. Then it does a compare with the hard-coded chances like accuracy, and then the game carries out the result. It's straightforward and no funny business happens.

The reason I'm not providing concrete examples of how it operates is because it would give away how to cheat online. That is not the intention.


I severely doubt you could realistically abuse this online. Same seed + same input = same result every time... only the other player is part of the input, and doing something even slightly different than expected would be catastrophic to your RNG manipulations.
---
Creator of Jay's Journey (see quote!)
"It's not ten years old! Therefore, it sucks!" - Nostalgia whores everywhere