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Is gen III still the black sheep of the franchise.

#111Gardevoir_exPosted 11/9/2012 1:59:37 AM
Gen 3 was all right for me; I like the large variety of Pokémon you can get in the early game. The only gripe I have about it is the lack of creativity in a lot of its new Pokémon - just count how many Gen 3 Pokémon have identical physical and special stats, and how many have exactly 60 in both defenses. (I believe this trend began in Gen 3, and continued until now.)

As for the black sheep, I'd say Gen 2 (and HG/SS to some degree), because I just cannot understand why they locked so many new Pokémon to the watered-down Kanto.
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"Teamwork is essential, it gives them other people to shoot at."
#112blazeairPosted 11/9/2012 4:40:51 AM
Too much water-based areas plus water trainers (Emerald)
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#113Teh_TiltyuPosted 11/9/2012 5:26:17 AM
From: ClassyOldHat | #108
Azurill and Wynaut do not have such excuses however

to be fair to wynaut it improved wobb a lot thanks to encore
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#114Haxdreigon(Topic Creator)Posted 11/10/2012 5:33:53 AM
Teh_Tiltyu posted...
From: ClassyOldHat | #108
Azurill and Wynaut do not have such excuses however

to be fair to wynaut it improved wobb a lot thanks to encore


They could also just give Wobbufett Encore as a starting move.
#115ShiroKao47Posted 11/10/2012 5:51:38 AM
I dont really get this? I like all the generations so far. I was undecided about the new one for abit but now I love it. The only thing I wish they hadent of removed is competitions.
#116Haxdreigon(Topic Creator)Posted 11/10/2012 6:16:01 AM
ShiroKao47 posted...
I dont really get this? I like all the generations so far. I was undecided about the new one for abit but now I love it. The only thing I wish they hadent of removed is competitions.


Which competitions?
#117Jat371Posted 11/14/2012 12:31:05 AM
I would say Gen III, more specifically Ruby/Sapphire, was objectively pretty great. I say objectively since Gen I and II are romanticized so heavily and their flaws painted over with very thick nostalgia. At the same time Gen IV and V are vilified because "Pokemon isn't good anymore!". I mostly say R/S and not R/S/E since R/S already introduced most of the concepts before Emerald came out.

- Running. Oh my god running.

- Double battles. Really a good new take on battling. While not totally mind blowing as a concept was used effectively. It was the 7th gym battle after all, and while Liza and Tate were pretty pedestrian as far as gym leaders and their pokemon go, the battle itself had a great dynamic. Triple battling introduced in B/W was just sort of awkward and seemed that it only existed as an inevitable addition to double battles. Although it's hard to judge because the only triple battles I remember were with the same 2 trainers in Opelucid City over and over and over.

- Greatly updated graphics. It's inevitable that being on a newer console than G/S/C would make R/S/E look better but that doesn't mean you can't appreciate them for that. They hold up fairly well over time compared to the DS games. What's weird though is that through D/P and B/W the graphics just don't seem as rich. D/P/Pl just look sorta off. Playing B/W really bothered my eyes. Everything definitely has more visual depth and dimension but it feels terribly shallow at the same time. Not to mention much of the visible lines seem jagged at times. (at this point you might think I don't like Gen IV or V, I do like them, but sometimes it's easier to highlight R/S's strengths this way)

- Better map dynamics. The region map became more detailed and gave much more information, less restrictive when selecting cities or areas, and simply looked better.

- In terms of the map itself, it had an actual dichotomy about it that matched the theme and teams. The backing theme of land vs. sea was reflected in the map itself. And while people complain about the overabundance of sea, be glad it was actually used well. Dive adds a lot more depth to the areas you're exploring while the surface is hardly bare itself. There are quite a few towns on the sea and places like the shipwreck and Shoal cave to explore. Gen I and II never had enough water to justify the overabundance of water Pokemon that plagued the early series. While IV and V addressed the type balance a little better, you barely get your feet wet.

- Hoenn itself is really high quality in terms of it's locations. Many towns and area were unique and well done. While I enjoyed the towns in other gens, they're usually just towns in a place sometimes with a backstory (most, definitely not all). R/S/E had places like Sootopolis located in a dead caldera with white stone, not to mention in the ocean. Fortree city just happened to be a modern town built out of large trees. Pacifidlog was this floating raft city and it's really unfortunate that it didn't have more use. Fallarbor was this hardy town constantly blanketed with ash but still thriving. All of this is not even getting to the different routes and unique locations like Mt. Pyre, Meteor Falls, Shoal Cave, the abandoned ship, and so on. And they were placed effectively and woven into the environments. Just to use Unova as a bad example, you have the desert awkwardly jammed between Castelia and Nimbassa, Twist Mountain is just sort of in the way, and most of the locations like the Moor and Giant Chasm sit on the outer edge of everything like they don't even exist.

- The needed revamping of the battle system. I really don't feel like going into detail about things like EV and IV but we all know the right thing was done. Abilities and natures also added a huge amount of depth. I don't think there's any argument on this point.

Continued in next post...
#118Jat371Posted 11/14/2012 12:31:28 AM
... continued.

- Gym designs were simple and effective (maybe for the last time). The gyms in places like Fortree, Mossdeep, and Sootopolis had simple but fun puzzles that simply worked. Petalburg gym allowed you to engage the trainers on different possible terms. What I feel that Gen IV and V have done (that includes HG/SS) is turn the gym more theatrical than anything. You've got these big slides and platforms and (literal) roller coasters but very little substance. And the interiors themselves just throw all suspension of disbelief out the window. Obviously we all know that in games like Pokemon the interior of buildings is larger for practical reasons. But in D/P/Pl, HG/SS, and B/W a large number of gyms are these immense multi-floored structures with massive floorspace all occupying moderately-sized buildings. It's just nonsensical.

- Lots of mini-games and postgame content. You had contests and secret bases which I could go on forever with but they were simple and effective. Secret bases provided another use for money other than just fueling your Pokemon war machine. Far superior to the awkward underground system of D/P. Contests worked simply and provided good entertainment and didn't have the tacked-on system of decorating your Pokemon with clip-art. The postgame had plenty to look for, though Pokemon games have never had much trouble with that.

- The villains had actual, clear motives. Team Rocket is iconic but their goals have always sort of been a mixture of steal Pokemon, make money, and sorta just be dicks. Their motives are really nebulous at best. I try to give Gen IV the benefit of the doubt but Team Galactic and Cyrus' plans are just so convoluted and the stakes are raised so ridiculously high you can't take any of it seriously. Team Plasma is a higher point in enemy teams. However it seems even with a clear goal, most of the lackies are either ignorant to their hypocrisy or blindly accept it which weakens their legitimacy as a whole. Keep in mind I haven't picked up B/W2 yet.

Team Aqua/Magma have clearly defined goals. Aqua believes water Pokemon need yet more territory and Magma believe there's not nearly enough space for land-based Pokemon. Each one, when they play the antagonist, want to shrink or expand the land. They attempt to reach these goals by either manipulating Mt. Chimney, trying to capture Castforms for their weather controlling properties, and use Groudon or Kyogre to change the landscape by force. The two legendaries work on more logical levels as super powerful Pokemon that can manipulate land and sea (like most ground and water Pokemon but on a massive scale) rather than the later legendaries that controlled time and space and the universe like they're a pantheon of gods (that can be relatively easily contained in a bloody Pokeball).

I could go on but it's getting rather late here. And yes, R/S have quite a few flaws to them as well. But I feel as though they have the best ratio of things done right - wrong.