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Is gen III still the black sheep of the franchise.

#61360pagesPosted 11/8/2012 5:27:46 PM
Kaguura posted...
360pages posted...
FefnirOmega13 posted...
AuroraSonicBeam posted...
Gen 3 games had the lowest sales of any generation and also was the least critically praised (especially compared to earlier generations) and there was a reason for that. As a matter of fact pokemon's popularity was actually decreasing during Ruby and Sapphire due to the lack of connectivity to earlier generations(the only games that had that problem) and also because people, especially kids, would rather play Yu-Gi-Oh. Emerald, and FireRed/Leaf/Green were Gen 3's only saving grace.

And to the people who say Gen 2's the black sheep; Gen 2 solidified Pokemon's status as a video game powerhouse as it continued the success of Red and Blue. As a previous user said, outside of this board, gen 3 is not as popular as it is here.

With that said, I'd rather listen to the critics and game sales, then the opinions os users on a message board.


Who are no more valid a reviewer than you, I or anyone else, incidentally. Lower game sales can be explained as the II games were on Game Boy and III required a GBA.

That said; Gen 2 (Read: GSC; HGSS are Gen IV games) was absolute garbage and I've posted this several times so the next time this topic is made I'm Ctrl-Cing my reply from a previous topic.


Ah, but reviews do influence sells, and what more people think how good a game is.
Your opinion is just as worthless as a reviewer, the difference is that people actually listens to them.


LOLOLOLOLOL. Is that why Resident Evil 6, despite being trashed to death by everyone, sold 1million in it's first week? So much for people listening to reviewers. Try again. :)


They do impact them, and despite your thinking, RE6 didn't get trashed, it actually got decent scores belive it or not.

Plus it also depends on the reviewer themselves and how popular something is.
I also sense some hostility.
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#62brawl__08Posted 11/8/2012 5:35:24 PM
From: Gastroid | Posted: 11/8/2012 4:31:39 PM
I remember, back in the day, spending a week or so trying to catch Phanpy just as soon as I got up, until I had to go to school. They were so hard to catch, and really only available at awkward, inconvenient times.


And the fleeing.

Phanpy liked fleeing.

Seriously, I can't believe people defend these types of features.

From: Junahu | Posted: 11/8/2012 5:33:49 PM
Gen 2 introduced all kinds of series staples; Breeding, Hold Items, Gender, Shiny Pokemon, PKRS. And in Japan, Gen 2 allowed trading via mobile phones.
And don't forget that Gen 2 introduced the Steel and Dark types, AND split Special into Sp.Atk and Sp.Def.


It's the utilization that makes them ultimately irrelevant in gen 2.

Held items were mostly nonexistent. Most of the items you could hold were man made items that had absolutely no effect, like a Potion. The mobile trade system was, from what I've been told, a good idea for an attempt on wireless stuff but ultimately not good in execution. The fact that it wasn't really feasible anywhere outside Japan hurts it too. Shiny Pokemon are still in the series, yeah, but they're just color swaps. Fun to find, but it's not like most people like the shiny counterparts of a Pokemon more than their original anyhow (due to quite a few of them being puke green for whatever reason, with gems like shiny Charizard, Rayquaza, Metagross, and Haxorus in the mix).

The steel and dark types were barely even in GSC. One steel gym and it had two Magnemite, leaving Skarmory off in a route after Blackthorn at level 27 or so as a version exclusive, another being the evolution of a weak headbutt tree Pokemon, and the last two being trade evos. Dark types had it worse. Only Umbreon was really ever available before the Elite Four unless you bothered to grind like hell with a Larvitar after Clair, since the rest of those bastards were after you beat Johto unless you were playing Crystal, in which case you could get a horribly underleveled Sneasel which you'd still have to grind.

Special split and breeding are the only things which were really implemented well enough to say they were built to be longstanding and basically just well done features overall. I'd throw genders in too but they were more of a subpart to breeding, with the only other use being for Attract (at the time, of course).

From: homerowed | Posted: 11/8/2012 5:46:42 PM
But yeah, pretty much all the people who love gen 3 are at that age now where they can start being nostalgic about things and they know how to use the internet, so they'll start gushing about it whenever they get the chance. Plus they probably feel bad that they haven't got a remake yet, so that just adds fuel to the fire.


Which is exactly why gen 2 even manages to have love at all.

Seriously, look at those pieces of trash past the surface of omg two regions dark nd steel types omg and all you'll notice is how little there actually is.

From: EdwardoMario16 | Posted: 11/8/2012 6:56:34 PM
Yeah man, this day/night time feature was so stupid. It was so dumb that they brought it back for the onset of Gen IV and V.


GEE WILLIKERS, BRINGING A FEATURE BACK MEANS IT'S GOOD?

It could just mean, ya know, the fanbase likes eating s*** and Gamefreak was happy to lower their pants for us. There are other reasons, but I'll touch up on them with your other points.
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#63brawl__08Posted 11/8/2012 5:36:15 PM
By "time" I meant day/night. I forgot that Gen 3 did have time (Shoal Cave), but you see, because of the lack of Gen 2's day/night feature, I wouldn't even remember that. Oh, it's Daylight all the time in the game, there's an internal clock in this game? Yeah, Time as the game runs in perpetual daylight. That makes sense.


Here's one: The GBA screen. Do you not remember how dim it actually was? Keep in mind that the GBA SP did fix the issue, but that came way too late. Regardless, do you really need a color change in the game to enjoy it? Did you not enjoy gen 1 because there was never any specified time? With gen 2, it was just a color swap of everything to a darker shade. Gen 4 had the change done right in that the time of day was actually reflected as the day went on. With gen 2, the sun just jumps up then down faster than the franchise's quality did when it went from gen 1 to gen 2.

And remember that this is Pokemon, the series where the giant rock snake called Onix has less attack than a Pikachu. "Sense" isn't a factor, and Pokemon always worked better without a logical aspect because no sane person likes waiting 100 days for a Safari Zone to start adding dragon Pokemon in HGSS just because importing from another region takes time or whatever BS it was.

That said, Gen III isn't bad, but it's the "black sheep" for a reason. Hoenn is a neat region and the Pokemon are cool, but as AuroraSonicBeam said, the lack of Gen 1 & 2 connectivity (The fact that the game boxes proudly boasted that), turned off a lot of the "Catch 'em All" fans who built their teams in Gen 1 & 2 had to suddenly "Catch 'em all over again.


It's not a black sheep for cutting off pointless connectivity so you guys could send Pokemon over that would likely take away from your attention to the actual new Pokemon. Do you even know how forgettable gen 2's Pokemon collection was? FFS, I've seen numerous people think Slugma and Skarmory were gen 3 Pokemon simply because gen 2 hated itself enough to not show us that those Pokemon existed. Colosseum and Gale of Darkness utilized gen 2 Pokemon more than GSC did.

Edwardo, from what I've seen of you, you can spot flaws in things fairly well. Gen 2 had them all over the place. A level curve that even resemble a curve, a complete underuse of just about everything it introduced, and throwing nothing but Kanto nostalgia when it was only 3 years old in an attempt to hide what little Gamefreak actually did for the games. The true shining point for gen 3 is that it managed to be the opposite of this, and the fact that Masuda headed the titles is a good indication that he saw what was wrong with gen 2 and strove to not repeat most of it's mistakes.

It explains why we've never seen another game with the ability to revisit an old region. We've already seen what a trainwreck it was the first time.

From: AuroraSonicBeam | Posted: 11/8/2012 6:44:54 PM
Gen 3 games had the lowest sales of any generation


Well, first off, the GBA had the lowest sales for the Nintendo handhelds thus far. Not sure about the 3DS, but that's a fairly new system so I really doubt we should count it.
Second, gen 3 is higher than gen 2 if we count FRLG. After all, they ARE gen 3 games. I know how you'll respond to this so don't bother.
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#64brawl__08Posted 11/8/2012 5:37:17 PM
and also was the least critically praised (especially compared to earlier generations) and there was a reason for that.


>reviewers
LEL

Yeah, and Mystery Dungeon has some of the lower review scores for Pokemon spinoffs. They're also arguably among the most popular spin off games in the series.

Just stop.

As a matter of fact pokemon's popularity was actually decreasing during Ruby and Sapphire due to the lack of connectivity to earlier generations(the only games that had that problem)


The hardware couldn't really connect. IIRC the GB/GBC games had trouble doing anything well with connecting on GBAs.

And to the people who say Gen 2's the black sheep; Gen 2 solidified Pokemon's status as a video game powerhouse as it continued the success of Red and Blue. As a previous user said, outside of this board, gen 3 is not as popular as it is here.


Prove that. Explain all the tweets Masuda got about gen 3 remakes then, and how he even went on to respond on how Ruby and Sapphire were very special to him. Explain how basically every video with music remixed from gen 3 (referring to gen 4 and 5 remixes, for the most part) have people going RSE REMAKES PLS.

With that said, I love gen 3 a lot. Hoenn was an awesome region and even better than Johto, but I'd rather listen to the critics and game sales, then the opinions of users on a message board.


Please, I doubt you'd be able to form an opinion on your own without reviewers telling you what to like. Your really wanna play the review game for everything? Explain why titles that received positive fan reception had such bad reviews. Explain some titles to me, like the aforementioned Mystery Dungeon titles.

I'll be waiting.
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#65Teh_TiltyuPosted 11/8/2012 5:38:46 PM
BUT DAY AND NITE WERE TTLY GUD BCUZ ITS REALISTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11111111111
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#66SAKURAllllllllPosted 11/8/2012 5:40:00 PM
From: 360pages | Posted: 11/8/2012 5:49:06 PM
Outside of this board, Gen 3 is't really all that well liked.
Well it's all opinion anyway, so why would anyone worry about it.

How ever it really doesn't have a high chance of a remake since it is the lowest seller. Who knows though, since the creator has a soft spot for it.


THIS JUST IN
NOT SELLING THE ABSOLUTE MOST IS A REASON TO NOT REMAKE A TITLE DESPITE BEING THE BEST SELLING GAMES OF THE GBA

360PAGES CONFIRMS HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT AND PROCEEDS TO USE HIS ASS AS HIS MOUTH WHILE HIS MOUTH CONTINUES TO DO NOTHING BUT FUNCTION MORE LIKE HIS ASS SHOULD
basically all he does is spew s*** from both ends

Jesus, out of all the people here, you're the one who never says anything even remotely resembling intelligence, then you either cry about being too much of a big meanie or whatever.

From: 360pages | Posted: 11/8/2012 7:27:46 PM
They do impact them, and despite your thinking, RE6 didn't get trashed, it actually got decent scores belive it or not.


A 76 on metacritic, when at least roughly half of the fandom thinks it was total garbage, and the number is growing.

If not that, then Diablo 3. If not that, then Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3. If not that, then Halo 4. If not that, then Mass Effect 3. If not that, then Star Wars: The Old Republic.

And how about a case of the opposite?

Sonic Unleashed 360/PS3
Mega Man Battle Network 6
Mega Man Star Force 3
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon (all of them)
and so on and so forth

Plus it also depends on the reviewer themselves and how popular something is.
I also sense some hostility.


Pfft, you think he was hostile?

Now you've got me in here.
#67brawl__08Posted 11/8/2012 5:43:29 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of a moderator or administrator]
#68Teh_TiltyuPosted 11/8/2012 5:45:43 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of the original poster]
#69360pagesPosted 11/8/2012 5:50:29 PM
SAKURAllllllll posted...
From: 360pages | Posted: 11/8/2012 5:49:06 PM
Outside of this board, Gen 3 is't really all that well liked.
Well it's all opinion anyway, so why would anyone worry about it.

How ever it really doesn't have a high chance of a remake since it is the lowest seller. Who knows though, since the creator has a soft spot for it.


THIS JUST IN
NOT SELLING THE ABSOLUTE MOST IS A REASON TO NOT REMAKE A TITLE DESPITE BEING THE BEST SELLING GAMES OF THE GBA

360PAGES CONFIRMS HE DOESN'T KNOW WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT AND PROCEEDS TO USE HIS ASS AS HIS MOUTH WHILE HIS MOUTH CONTINUES TO DO NOTHING BUT FUNCTION MORE LIKE HIS ASS SHOULD
basically all he does is spew s*** from both ends

Jesus, out of all the people here, you're the one who never says anything even remotely resembling intelligence, then you either cry about being too much of a big meanie or whatever.

From: 360pages | Posted: 11/8/2012 7:27:46 PM
They do impact them, and despite your thinking, RE6 didn't get trashed, it actually got decent scores belive it or not.


A 76 on metacritic, when at least roughly half of the fandom thinks it was total garbage, and the number is growing.

If not that, then Diablo 3. If not that, then Call of Duty Modern Warfare 3. If not that, then Halo 4. If not that, then Mass Effect 3. If not that, then Star Wars: The Old Republic.

And how about a case of the opposite?

Sonic Unleashed 360/PS3
Mega Man Battle Network 6
Mega Man Star Force 3
Pokemon Mystery Dungeon (all of them)
and so on and so forth

Plus it also depends on the reviewer themselves and how popular something is.
I also sense some hostility.


Pfft, you think he was hostile?

Now you've got me in here.


What are you even talking about, I said anything could happen with the remakes, they didn't sell well but the creator has a soft spot for them.

76, is't horrible. It's not a 4.0 either. You said half the fan base hates the game, but it still sold well.

And something no selling well is a good reason not to remake it, just like the creator liking it is a good reason to remake it.
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#70AuroraSonicBeamPosted 11/8/2012 5:53:19 PM
brawl__08 posted...
By "time" I meant day/night. I forgot that Gen 3 did have time (Shoal Cave), but you see, because of the lack of Gen 2's day/night feature, I wouldn't even remember that. Oh, it's Daylight all the time in the game, there's an internal clock in this game? Yeah, Time as the game runs in perpetual daylight. That makes sense.


Here's one: The GBA screen. Do you not remember how dim it actually was? Keep in mind that the GBA SP did fix the issue, but that came way too late. Regardless, do you really need a color change in the game to enjoy it? Did you not enjoy gen 1 because there was never any specified time? With gen 2, it was just a color swap of everything to a darker shade. Gen 4 had the change done right in that the time of day was actually reflected as the day went on. With gen 2, the sun just jumps up then down faster than the franchise's quality did when it went from gen 1 to gen 2.

And remember that this is Pokemon, the series where the giant rock snake called Onix has less attack than a Pikachu. "Sense" isn't a factor, and Pokemon always worked better without a logical aspect because no sane person likes waiting 100 days for a Safari Zone to start adding dragon Pokemon in HGSS just because importing from another region takes time or whatever BS it was.

That said, Gen III isn't bad, but it's the "black sheep" for a reason. Hoenn is a neat region and the Pokemon are cool, but as AuroraSonicBeam said, the lack of Gen 1 & 2 connectivity (The fact that the game boxes proudly boasted that), turned off a lot of the "Catch 'em All" fans who built their teams in Gen 1 & 2 had to suddenly "Catch 'em all over again.


It's not a black sheep for cutting off pointless connectivity so you guys could send Pokemon over that would likely take away from your attention to the actual new Pokemon. Do you even know how forgettable gen 2's Pokemon collection was? FFS, I've seen numerous people think Slugma and Skarmory were gen 3 Pokemon simply because gen 2 hated itself enough to not show us that those Pokemon existed. Colosseum and Gale of Darkness utilized gen 2 Pokemon more than GSC did.

Edwardo, from what I've seen of you, you can spot flaws in things fairly well. Gen 2 had them all over the place. A level curve that even resemble a curve, a complete underuse of just about everything it introduced, and throwing nothing but Kanto nostalgia when it was only 3 years old in an attempt to hide what little Gamefreak actually did for the games. The true shining point for gen 3 is that it managed to be the opposite of this, and the fact that Masuda headed the titles is a good indication that he saw what was wrong with gen 2 and strove to not repeat most of it's mistakes.

It explains why we've never seen another game with the ability to revisit an old region. We've already seen what a trainwreck it was the first time.

From: AuroraSonicBeam | Posted: 11/8/2012 6:44:54 PM
Gen 3 games had the lowest sales of any generation


Well, first off, the GBA had the lowest sales for the Nintendo handhelds thus far. Not sure about the 3DS, but that's a fairly new system so I really doubt we should count it.
Second, gen 3 is higher than gen 2 if we count FRLG. After all, they ARE gen 3 games. I know how you'll respond to this so don't bother.


No, the reason why they are higher is because there were more games in gen 3 than Gen 2 but Gold/Silver sold more than any of them individually. And btw, the Playstation 2 sold the most systems than any other system, but Super Mario Bros sold more than any of their games how can you explain that going by your logic?
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