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Ev Training is cheating? How do you feel when someone says that?

#51HoundourtwoPosted 11/17/2012 11:50:44 AM
Chaos_Missile posted...
While I dont particularly dislike the concept of EV itself, I dislike EV training because it's INCREDIBLY tedious to keep track of it. In addition, there's no real easy way of doing it and you're just gonna hope for the best. Even the EV Checker in-game can only tell you an estimate.


Rather than recording the actual number of EV points gained in real time, I find it easier just to track the total number of attack PPs used during the EV-training process. If the Pokemon that I'm EV-training is not powerful enough to OHKO the wild Pokemon that I should be training on, then I will always switch to a stronger Pokemon at the start of each wild Pokemon encounter. Of course, this can lead to heavy usage of healing items, but I don't mind.

As an example, let's suppose I want my Kyurem-B to have 252 Speed EVs. After feeding it 10 Carbos, infecting it with Pokerus, and giving it a Macho Brace to hold, the Kyurem-B would only need to KO 19 Basculin to finish EV-training its Speed stat. So I would then battle against wild Basculin until Kyurem-B has consumed a total of 19 damage-inflicting PPs.
#52Godly_GoofPosted 11/17/2012 11:59:53 AM
If EV training is cheating then leveling your pokemon is also cheating... Just saying.

Ya its really monotonous but your not forced to do it unless you want to be super competitive and if you want to be competitive then just EV train, its really not even that hard.

And the far more annoying part at that point isnt the EVs its the fact that knowing that some pokemon are just better than others so just because you WANT to use one doesnt mean its FEESABLE to use the one you want.
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#53ashcrvPosted 11/17/2012 12:19:08 PM
I say "You're right man" because they are.
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#54kharn the betrayerPosted 11/17/2012 12:33:06 PM
considering the amount of ingame items that boost ev's one way or another I dont see how it even can be considered cheating
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#55KoitePosted 11/17/2012 12:34:00 PM
[This message was deleted at the request of a moderator or administrator]
#56FungusForBrainsPosted 11/17/2012 12:41:55 PM
72nd_Gunslinger posted...
EV training itself is obviously not cheating (I EV train all the time by myself), but I've always thought it was interesting how people differentiate between EV training and RNG manipulation/perfect-IV breeding.

For one, there isn't any way to determine which pokemon give out which EVs "legitimately," i.e. without looking into the game's internal mathematics/source code (very similar to what you do with RNG manipulation). Even if you get the numbers off of a website, the person who put them there ultimately got them from someone who looked into the game's internals. Far as I can tell, there has been no formal source from Nintendo/Game Freak that details the exact values given out by each pokemon.

Even if you argue that RNG manipulates the math on a deeper level than EV training, you could easily argue in turn that it's the same thing, just to a different degree --- EV training manipulates stat point growth by exploiting the hidden mathematical system by which those stats are determined, while RNG manipulations/IV manipulation just manipulates THOSE values/the internal math by which THEY are determined.

I've been EV training for too long to think of EV training as cheating, myself. But the way I see it, it doesn't really seem consistent to call EV training "legitimate" while discounting RNG abuse as "cheating," as they both are impossible without using external means to get the numbers/math you need to exploit them properly.


Theoretically, one could legitimately find out through experience. Eg, defeating one hundred Magikarp with one Pokemon, and that one is much faster at level 100 than the rest of your team, so you repeat with another and find the same results. Although it would be much more tedious and unlikely, it is a possibility.
#57wind64aPosted 11/17/2012 12:46:17 PM
For IV's and EV's we now have the IV checker, who tells you how good your best stats and nature value alongside Bianca who tells you when you're done EV training in a stat. Alongside that there are Power items, the Everstone trick, vitamins, and the Cafe/Fitness center Join avenue shops. Not to mention the feathers. You don't even have to battle anything to get max EV's now. It might take a few days, but it's possible to avoid battling to EV train entirely. So no, you don't have to know which Pokemon give out which EV's in order to EV train.
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#58Miggi3Fr3shPosted 11/17/2012 1:23:59 PM
Empiror posted...
WolfJounin posted...
emolsifier posted...
I do have to wonder, which legendaries were on his team. as badass as lucario is, I would think that with 6 of them he'd at least be able to whittle it down.


Maybe he's like how some naive kids were in gen 1, where they thought a Pokemon should use as many possible moves of its type:
e.g.
Charizard:
-Flamethrower
-Fire Blast
-Fire Spin
-Fly

lol


My exact set from Red when I was 6...

don't judge me ;_;


That's a lie. You couldn't get Fly on Charizard until Pokemon Yellow
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#59Sky_High_DxPosted 11/17/2012 2:02:22 PM
WolfJounin posted...
emolsifier posted...
I do have to wonder, which legendaries were on his team. as badass as lucario is, I would think that with 6 of them he'd at least be able to whittle it down.


Maybe he's like how some naive kids were in gen 1, where they thought a Pokemon should use as many possible moves of its type:
e.g.
Charizard:
-Flamethrower
-Fire Blast
-Fire Spin
-Fly

lol


To be fair, that's the only things it could learn worth using without using TMs. I sincerely think the reason most early childhood movesets were so bad is in part due to not wanting to waste TMs.
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Sky High Dx
#60CharizardFirePosted 11/17/2012 3:04:24 PM
From: Miggi3Fr3sh | #058
Empiror posted...
WolfJounin posted...
emolsifier posted...
I do have to wonder, which legendaries were on his team. as badass as lucario is, I would think that with 6 of them he'd at least be able to whittle it down.


Maybe he's like how some naive kids were in gen 1, where they thought a Pokemon should use as many possible moves of its type:
e.g.
Charizard:
-Flamethrower
-Fire Blast
-Fire Spin
-Fly

lol


My exact set from Red when I was 6...

don't judge me ;_;


That's a lie. You couldn't get Fly on Charizard until Pokemon Yellow

It's called trading.

At any rate, I was smarter than that. My Red version Charizard knew Fire Blast, Earthquake, Flamethrower, and Fly.
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