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Hopefully they dont let us trade from older games into X/Y.

#71CakeOfLiesPosted 1/9/2013 3:35:11 PM
Pkmn Tranier Abram posted...
I too hope they don't let us trade over to XY

Screw trading, I want to FINALLY be able to mass transfer by the box. It's ridiculous to have 650 Pokemon and have to do it one at a time, wearing out the Flash save needlessly.


Yeah... I totally agree with this.
Transferring by the box sounds like a good idea.
Choose what Pokemon you want to STAY instead of what to transfer... Sounds good to me.
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#72360pagesPosted 1/9/2013 3:44:34 PM
Oddly enough, this would just encourage hacking and cheating in the first place. People will hack to get their old favorites back and that will probably be it. Plus, if there isn't a lot of new pokemon this gen you can bet they'll let us transfer old ones over.

And don't give me that crap, that the 3ds can't be hacked. All you need to know is how to import files to the gts and your solid.
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#73ryudin89Posted 1/9/2013 3:55:37 PM
Pkmn Tranier Abram posted...
I too hope they don't let us trade over to XY

Screw trading, I want to FINALLY be able to mass transfer by the box. It's ridiculous to have 650 Pokemon and have to do it one at a time, wearing out the Flash save needlessly.


Oh yes please. Why this hasn't been implemented yet is beyond me. They even had a cruel tease in gen 5 by letting you pick multiple pokemon, only to be able to send one at a time.
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#74MileRunPosted 1/9/2013 4:10:27 PM
ClassyOldHat posted...
Guys, you don't need to cut off backwards compatibility to add new mechanics, change base stats, or anything like that.

Gold and Silver allowed backwards compatibility despite changing all Pokemon's base Special stats, adding genders, and new types.

The only things that might not transfer so easily if changed are the EV/IV systems, and even then, depending on HOW they're changed, it wouldn't likely be a huge obstacle. For example, if they decided to cut the IVs from 0-31 to 0-15, we could just halve the IVs of a Pokemon being transferred in.


Seriously, hardware problems were the only things preventing transfer. While I can understand this thinking regarding things like the EV system, saying we would never have had natures or Abilities if backwards compatibility was removed is just absurd.

You know what also happened the last time backwards compatibility was cut off? To complete a Pokedex, you need five GBA games and two Gamecube games?


Except the way Gold and Silver did it sucked.

Gender and shininess were based on IVs, so you couldn't have a female Pokemon with an Attack IV in the upper half of the range, and the Special Attack and Special Defense stats would have the same IVs and EVs (as opposed to every other stat, which had their own individual values).

Note that changing a Pokemon's type wouldn't require changing individual Pokemon data structure; it would just mean redefining some Species information elsewhere in the code.

As for the number of games you need to complete your Pokedex, keep in mind that we have WiFi downloads and the Dream World now. It wouldn't be difficult to set something like that up for Generation VI to provide Pokemon that aren't available on cartridge.
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#75Des Troy 321Posted 1/9/2013 4:14:25 PM
basically it boils down to "let's take everyone down as long as hackers can be taken down" right?

The games will fail if people can't do what they want with em, that's one aspect of pokemon that won't change.

if People want to play legit they will, if they want to cheat they'll find a way to do it, so each person can play the game and have fun the way he/she wants too.

but no we've got people who want to deal in absolute, wanting hackers to get shot if it means legit players get caught in the crossfire.
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#76ClassyOldHatPosted 1/9/2013 4:27:39 PM
MileRun posted...

Except the way Gold and Silver did it sucked.

Gender and shininess were based on IVs, so you couldn't have a female Pokemon with an Attack IV in the upper half of the range, and the Special Attack and Special Defense stats would have the same IVs and EVs (as opposed to every other stat, which had their own individual values).

Note that changing a Pokemon's type wouldn't require changing individual Pokemon data structure; it would just mean redefining some Species information elsewhere in the code.

As for the number of games you need to complete your Pokedex, keep in mind that we have WiFi downloads and the Dream World now. It wouldn't be difficult to set something like that up for Generation VI to provide Pokemon that aren't available on cartridge.


Ah yes. "One gen did it in a way that had some slight issues! This will never ever be improved, no matter how technology or ways of transmitting data advances! Therefore, we should never try it again!" A timeless argument.

Really, the only remotely valid complaint I can see about this is the gender being attached to the attack IV, and even then, I don't see any parallels to this situation currently.
#77MileRunPosted 1/9/2013 4:57:28 PM
ClassyOldHat posted...
MileRun posted...

Except the way Gold and Silver did it sucked.

Gender and shininess were based on IVs, so you couldn't have a female Pokemon with an Attack IV in the upper half of the range, and the Special Attack and Special Defense stats would have the same IVs and EVs (as opposed to every other stat, which had their own individual values).

Note that changing a Pokemon's type wouldn't require changing individual Pokemon data structure; it would just mean redefining some Species information elsewhere in the code.

As for the number of games you need to complete your Pokedex, keep in mind that we have WiFi downloads and the Dream World now. It wouldn't be difficult to set something like that up for Generation VI to provide Pokemon that aren't available on cartridge.


Ah yes. "One gen did it in a way that had some slight issues! This will never ever be improved, no matter how technology or ways of transmitting data advances! Therefore, we should never try it again!" A timeless argument.

Really, the only remotely valid complaint I can see about this is the gender being attached to the attack IV, and even then, I don't see any parallels to this situation currently.


It's not an issue of transmitting data. It's an issue of translating data from one system to another. It's like taking a square peg and making it round so it'll fit in a round hole; sure, you can do it, but only by mutilating the peg and turning it into something it was never meant to be.

Example:
Generation VI introduces a concept called "Profile", similar in practice to Generation III's abilities. Individual Pokemon could be one of three Profiles based on their species, and the type of Profile a Pokemon has would have a significant effect on something in battle.

You transfer a Pokemon from Generation V, which doesn't have a variable for Profile. How would you go about making one?
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Example 2:
Generation VI overhauls the Ability system, such that each Pokemon gets two out of a possible five abilities. Doing this requires a changing Pokemon variable data structure to add room for an extra trait value.

You transfer a Pokemon from Generation V, which uses the old data format, with an ability variable that only accounts for a single ability. How would you go about translating it to the new system?
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Imagine if Generations II and III were somehow magically compatible. Do you realize just how much of a mess Pokemon data structure would be right now? Or how Game Freak would never be able to streamline it if they wanted to preserve transference between generations?

There is a time when the simplest and best solution to a problem is to cut backwards compatibility and start fresh. When every workaround involves coming up with a stupid solution that could potentially stick around for generations to come, it's time to torch everything and begin anew.
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#78Infernus93Posted 1/9/2013 5:33:06 PM
The only reason I want to be able to transfer Pokemon from older games is so that mons I've had a long time can continue on with me.

I lost too many bros when my Gold/Silver cartridges' batteries died.

Never again.
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#79Baseball4Lyfe85Posted 1/9/2013 5:35:46 PM
I agree
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#80ClassyOldHatPosted 1/9/2013 6:10:15 PM
MileRun posted...
It's not an issue of transmitting data. It's an issue of translating data from one system to another. It's like taking a square peg and making it round so it'll fit in a round hole; sure, you can do it, but only by mutilating the peg and turning it into something it was never meant to be.

Example:
Generation VI introduces a concept called "Profile", similar in practice to Generation III's abilities. Individual Pokemon could be one of three Profiles based on their species, and the type of Profile a Pokemon has would have a significant effect on something in battle.

You transfer a Pokemon from Generation V, which doesn't have a variable for Profile. How would you go about making one?
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Simple. Assign this variable at random, and don't allow Pokemon to be returned to previous generations. Part of the reason I think such a solution wasn't applied to Gold and Silver, I believe, was because Gamefreak tried to make it trade-based, rather than a one way transfer.

Example 2:
Generation VI overhauls the Ability system, such that each Pokemon gets two out of a possible five abilities. Doing this requires a changing Pokemon variable data structure to add room for an extra trait value.

You transfer a Pokemon from Generation V, which uses the old data format, with an ability variable that only accounts for a single ability. How would you go about translating it to the new system?
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Use the current ability data as the first of the two abilities, and select another at random.

Imagine if Generations II and III were somehow magically compatible. Do you realize just how much of a mess Pokemon data structure would be right now? Or how Game Freak would never be able to streamline it if they wanted to preserve transference between generations?

There is a time when the simplest and best solution to a problem is to cut backwards compatibility and start fresh. When every workaround involves coming up with a stupid solution that could potentially stick around for generations to come, it's time to torch everything and begin anew.


Now, not being a programmer, I can't say how easy this would be to do, but I think it would have been perfectly possible to change from a system where Gender and shininess are decided by IVs to one that was not while still maintaining transferability. Read the IVs of an incoming Pokemon, and if it's IVs correspond to one for a certain gender, or make it shiny, give the Pokemon a corresponding gender and shiny status, while Pokemon generated in the new game will never get their gender or shininess decided be IVs. Also, wipe EVs of transferred Pokemon clean, and make them always have neutral natures.

Now, before you say "But randomly assigned abilities and neutral natures would make some of the Pokemon you transfer over useless compared to one generated specifically for this game" Keep in mind you could say this about a lot of transfers. My special attacking Sceptile with Leaf Blade, Thunderpunch, Dragon Claw and Cruch was obsolete when transferred to gen 4. Slowpokes before gen 5 were obsoleted by Regenerator Slowpokes. I could go on. But this still allowed players to hold on to sentimental Pokemon, and to complete their Pokedex without getting seven games.