Pokemon Black Version 2
This is a split board - You can return to the Split List for other boards.
Long Live Smogon
Back To: Board List | Topic List | Topic Archived
Page 1 of 2 | Last
I checked out smogon's current ban list...and I see Tornadus-T and Genesect are banned (lol), while Kyurem-B, Garchomp, and Ditto arent Why are the non-broken pokes banned, and the broken ones are allowed to roam free? smogon sucks now --- Co-Leader of The Fight Club No more Wifi fights. | |
Kyurem-B, Garchomp, and especially Ditto, aren't broken. Tornadus-T and Genesect are. | |
None of those Pokes are broken imo --- "You got to be careful if you don't know where you're going, because you might not get there." - Yogi Berra | |
By the topic title that's not the direction I was expecting TC to go.. --- Official co-leader of KIL Join the site http://w11.zetaboards.com/kil | |
Ditto is only as good as the Pokémon it transforms into. --- http://i458.photobucket.com/albums/qq303/CharizardFire6/Char-Brawl.gif The official Charizard of the Pokemon Black 2 and White 2 boards. | |
Genesect>>>>everything mentioned --- White FC: 0132 3012 2303 | |
CharizardFire posted... Ditto is only as good as the Pokémon it transforms into. Yeah imo ditto is the complete opposite of broken. --- Official co-leader of KIL Join the site http://w11.zetaboards.com/kil | |
From what I hear, Tornadus-T is quite nasty. --- Rest in Peace City of Heroes: April 27, 2004 - November 30, 2012. We will miss you. Cause of death: "Realignment of Company Focus" by NCsoft. | |
Ditto is broken in principle. The biggest issue is that it can render the entire concept of a setup sweeper useless. Expanding on this problem, it can also compromise the inherent nature of certain types of teams, particularly Heavy Offense, as well as any team in which the win condition is a setup sweeper. In the metagame, turn usage is key to winning. Players attempt to gain "free turns" etc in order to execute certain tactics on which their win condition is contingent upon. In the case of setup sweeper win conditions, the user of setup sweepers is actually punished for trying to get free turns if Ditto is on the enemy team. If one is using a setup sweeper, and a Ditto is on the enemy team, the player has two options: 1) Setup your sweeper while simultaneously coming under assault from the enemy's pokemon, and pray that the Ditto doesnt counter sweep. 2) Abandon your win condition and likely lose the game. In the metagame, when there is a pokemon with so much offensive presence that it renders even walls useless and is virtually unable to be handled, it is banned to Ubers on the ground that it renders defense tactics, among other things, useless. Now that we have something that renders the offense tactic of setup sweeping useless and even dangerous to attempt, why should we allow it to stay. Another reason it should be banned is because it takes out an element of skill and can even turn the game into a crapshoot. If someone carries a Ditto with no Choice item, or even a Quick Claw, then the winner will be decided by a speed tie or worse. There is the issue of the setup sweeper user having to find the turns to setup in the first place, while the Ditto user can make moves and simply "steal" the turns the original user had to work for. Just because people dont really use it/mainly noobs use it, doesnt mean it isnt broken. If used by people who know what theyre doing, it becomes unfair in many instances or turns games into crapshoots. Kyurem B is broken for a few reasons. When somebody sends a Kyrem B out, you have no clue what it will do and really cannot defend against it. It's not like Terrakion which can only effectively play the role of a reasonably fast physical attacker that just hits hard. Kyurem can do things from hit-and-run, stall, set-up, stall-break, wall-break, and pave the way to a dragon sweep; all using its effective movepool and mammoth stats. If used properly (which most people probably don't), it can render stall strategy useless and overcentralize drag+mag combo. Garchomp has been extensively discussed and is the most arguable case, so ill just skip that since I'm lazy. anyways, just because Ditto and KyuremB arent used often/properly, doesnt mean that they arent broken. --- Co-Leader of The Fight Club No more Wifi fights. | |
amigo767 posted... The biggest issue is that it can render the entire concept of a setup sweeper useless. In the metagame, turn usage is key to winning. Players attempt to gain "free turns" etc in order to execute certain tactics on which their win condition is contingent upon. If one is using a setup sweeper, and a Ditto is on the enemy team, the player has two options: 1) Setup your sweeper while simultaneously coming under assault from the enemy's pokemon, and pray that the Ditto doesnt counter sweep. 2) Abandon your win condition and likely lose the game. No. Your options are to skip the boost and knock Ditto's block off (especially if you're using a dragon-type stab and aren't Dialga), and then switch to a counter for whatever comes next, or to predict Ditto and switch to something that will be useless with a scarf/low HP, like a wall or utility counter. Ditto will be forced to switch out, while you gain that free turn to start firing off status moves and spikes. And a pokemon is not considered "bannable" because it can cause a switch. In the metagame, when there is a pokemon with so much offensive presence that it renders even walls useless and is virtually unable to be handled, it is banned to Ubers on the ground that it renders defense tactics, among other things, useless. Now that we have something that renders the offense tactic of setup sweeping useless and even dangerous to attempt, why should we allow it to stay. Because defensive pokemon render it useless. That's like saying, "we should ban fire as a type because it renders grass useless, despite having a weakness to water!" Two identical sweepers, one with higher speed and one with higher HP. The higher speed one wins. Two identical walls, one with higher speed, and one with higher HP. The one with higher HP wins, even if the faster one isn't crippled with a choice item. And before you say, "but that's still broken because pure offense teams can't get through it!" it's the team's fault for sharing a common weakness. Kyurem B is broken for a few reasons. What effective movepool? Kyurem-B isn't Uber because of it's movepool, it lacks a physical ice move that doesn't take two turns to use. What's it going to do besides Outrage, Fusion Bolt, and a weaker/slower Ice move? Now, pokemon do not get banned to Ubers because they can be effectively used there. They get their tier bumped up when they begin to maul the metagame in their present tier. Ditto, while easily spammable in Ubers, does not do anything special in NU due to the lack of good things to turn into, and thus is not banned. --- "it's that game that is so great it makes you want to destroy your Toilet." -Throwback2780 |
Facebook
Twitter
